# Firewall! SS or Titanium?

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#### Taiser

##### Well-Known Member
Starting to stockpile and scrounge for metals for my Hummel H5 build this winter (Build thread will be started when I actually get going! ) and am thinking of titanium for the firewall instead of SS. Price isn't that bad from what I can see for the size I need (firewall is pretty small on the H5) but am wondering if there is any good reason, besides maybe a few ounces in weight) of going with the titanium FW? Never used it before so wondering how hard it is to work with, bend tabs on, etc... I know for sure I don't want galvanized! My 750 has it and I regret using it. Knowing what I know now I would have went with a custom made SS on my 750! :ermm:

Anyhoo, anybody who has $0.02 to throw in, or has worked with Ti before, be great to get any advice! Cheers Mark #### djschwartz ##### Well-Known Member Starting to stockpile and scrounge for metals for my Hummel H5 build this winter (Build thread will be started when I actually get going! ) and am thinking of titanium for the firewall instead of SS. Price isn't that bad from what I can see for the size I need (firewall is pretty small on the H5) but am wondering if there is any good reason, besides maybe a few ounces in weight) of going with the titanium FW? Never used it before so wondering how hard it is to work with, bend tabs on, etc... I know for sure I don't want galvanized! My 750 has it and I regret using it. Knowing what I know now I would have went with a custom made SS on my 750! :ermm: Anyhoo, anybody who has$0.02 to throw in, or has worked with Ti before, be great to get any advice!

Cheers

Mark
There is no advantage to titanium other than weight. Thin titanium sheet can be sheared and punched with the same light duty tools you would use for stainless; however, titanium is stiffer than stainless and work hardens when formed so bending tabs will be both more difficult and present the problem that a bend not done just right the first time may be nearly impossible to "adjust".

#### JamesG

##### Well-Known Member
OTOH, A couple of layers of Ti foil ~.005" would make a "significant" weight difference (a few ounces) and be pretty much impenetrable to heat/flame. Assuming the firewall isn't structural, of course.

#### FritzW

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
You might want to see what kind of dissimilar metal corrosion issues there are with Titanium.

This would be enough to scare me away from Titanium (from MIL-HDBK-1568)

5.4.3.4 Titanium

5.4.3.4.1 Surface considerations.
The surfaces of titanium mill products (sheet, plate, bar, forging, casting and extrusion) shall be
100 percent machined, chemically milled, or pickled to remove all contaminated zones and
layers formed while the material was at elevated temperature. This includes contamination as a
result of mill processing, heat treating and elevated temperature forming operations.

5.4.3.4.2 Fretting.
Titanium alloys are highly susceptible to the reduction of fatigue life by fretting at interfaces
between titanium alloys or titanium and other metals. In any design where fretting is suspected,
tests shall be made to determine whether such a condition will exist. Design considerations
shall be applied to minimize fretting in structural applications.

5.4.3.4.3 Special precautions.
Titanium parts shall not be cadmium or silver plated. Cadmium plated clamps, tools, fixtures,
and jigs shall not be used for fabrication or assembly of titanium components or structures.

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#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Many people building Competition Pitts are using Ti. I think annealed state. If nothing else its a conversation starter.

#### BillM

##### Well-Known Member
As to corrosion issues- I know that Boeing uses titanium intercostals (stub beams) under all galleys and lavs on the commercial planes since ti resists corrosion far better than does aluminum
BillM

#### FritzW

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
...Boeing uses titanium intercostals (stub beams) under all galleys and lavs on the commercial planes since ti resists corrosion far better than does aluminum
BillM
The problem isn't urine and spilled coffee. It's when you use Cadmium plated hardware on Titanium parts, and most aircraft hardware is Cadmium plated.

It might be okay to pee on a Titanium firewall, just don't use standard, cad plated, aircraft hardware to hold your motor mount on. ...or the gasclator, or anything else mounted to the firewall. Titanium is also damaged by Silver and lots of different lubricants and solvents.

Titianium is good stuff but a homebuilder really needs to do his homework before using the stuff.

#### Norman

##### Well-Known Member
It also takes a lot of shielding gas to weld

#### Topaz

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
IMHO, use stainless and then use the money you saved to go buy your wife/girlfriend a nice dinner for putting up with your build. Or a nice dinner for enthusiastically supporting your build. You'll get far more out of that than from a titanium firewall.

There's nothing titanium can give you that a "less cool" metal couldn't do for you at half the price, unless the design calls for titanium in the first place. As for weight savings, the paint on the airplane will weigh more than the firewall, even if you choose stainless.

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
IMHO, use stainless and then use the money you saved to go buy your wife/girlfriend a nice dinner for putting up with your build. Or a nice dinner for enthusiastically supporting your build. You'll get far more out of that than from a titanium firewall.
Or go with galvanized so you have money for a nice bottle of wine too. Unless it's a show plane I wouldn't think anything of it.

#### StarJar

##### Well-Known Member
So Fritz, you're saying it's OK to pee on a firewall?
Man, you New Mexico boys are even wilder than I thought..onder:..:gig:

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#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
I'm imagining a relief tube connected to a cooling spray bar. Wait, no, maybe that's not a great idea...

#### StarJar

##### Well-Known Member
I'm imagining a relief tube connected to a cooling spray bar. Wait, no, maybe that's not a great idea...
You'd want to use stainless steel.

#### Himat

##### Well-Known Member
Or go with galvanized so you have money for a nice bottle of wine too. Unless it's a show plane I wouldn't think anything of it.
Stainless steel differ in one property to carbon steel that can make a difference in a firewall, the usual 316 stainless steel does not conduct heat as well as carbon steel.

#### FritzW

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
So Fritz, you're saying it's OK to pee on a firewall?
Man, you New Mexico boys are even wilder than I thought..onder:..:gig:
...it's that freaken tequila, we can't help it.

M

#### Matt G.

##### Well-Known Member
Or go with galvanized so you have money for a nice bottle of wine too. Unless it's a show plane I wouldn't think anything of it.
How about poisonous fumes given off by the galvanizing by your engine fire, should it be close enough to the firewall to do that?

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
How about poisonous fumes given off by the galvanizing by your engine fire, should it be close enough to the firewall to do that?

I have built firewalls from SS and galvanized steel. SS is to hard to work with and I'm past shinny. If you don't like the look of galvanized steel, paint it.
As far as the fumes off galvanized steel in a fire, a flying speed, the small about of fumes will be greatly deluded , so unless you have your head stuck in the flames, nothing to worry about, then you have bigger problems.
BTW-- Have welded galvanized steel all of life.

Dan

#### Taiser

##### Well-Known Member
That was an interesting tid-bit. Still thinking about it as well as the control rods as well and maybe the rudder pedals. Trying to make this as light as possible but maybe I'm going too far LOL. My 750 STOL is heavy so I'm trying to make this build a bit more "unique" titanium parts, flush rivets, turbine engine (eventually), etc...! Just a pure fun "S***'s and Giggle" toy!

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#### Angusnofangus

##### Well-Known Member
As to corrosion issues- I know that Boeing uses titanium intercostals (stub beams) under all galleys and lavs on the commercial planes since ti resists corrosion far better than does aluminum

I've done lots of repairs under the lavs and galleys of 727's and older 737's, and there is no Ti there. Maybe on newer stuff, I don't know. The only Ti on 727's is the firewalls and, I think, the lav dump tubes.In fact the shear web under 727 lavs is 7075-T6, a real great combination with the stuff that leaks out on it. Not unusual to find holes corroded all the way through.

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