Fireproof upholstery and experimental aircraft?

Discussion in 'Finishing Techniques' started by Battson, Aug 27, 2012.

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  1. Nov 27, 2012 #21

    litespeed

    litespeed

    litespeed

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    Golden advice

    Vinyl really is nasty stuff- even in a hot car it outgasses and makes a yucky film on the windows.

    Even a wire that gets hot could be enough to make it outgass a lot of bad stuff- and effect the pilot well before it is clearly alight.

    Vinyl really is a NO, No for aircraft.

    Go leather in a thin grade- similar weight and no disadvantages. Given the amount most would use the price should be affordable.

    Mother Nature did a great job.
     
  2. Nov 27, 2012 #22

    SVSUSteve

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    Plus you can get it in nearly any color or finish you would like. I have never seen a vinyl or plastic come close to the subtle luxury of a well-done leather upholstery job.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2012 #23

    Battson

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    This may interest you - our rough and ready burn tests are done.

    The vinyl did catch fire (with a blowtorch) but even with heat for some time, it always burned itself out quite soon albeit with a heap of nasty pluuming smoke and lots of molten vinyl dripping everywhere. But it always went out. I would not like to have the seat catch fire, the strapping and foam are probably even more flammable, and then there's the glue holding it together.

    We also tested some leather (common upholstery grade) which also caught fire, then burned really well! Once it was lit and burning there was no stopping it. Vertical or horisontal strip, both were consumed completely. So I guess the recommendation is that it's worth checking whatever material you're using. It seems that not all grades of the same material are created equally.
     
  4. Dec 3, 2012 #24

    bmcj

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    Holy flammable cows Batman!
     
  5. Dec 3, 2012 #25

    Detego

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    Seat Cover: NOMEX (meta-aramid) over Cotton liner.

    Seat Foam: ??

    Seat Structure: ??






    Nomex® by Du Pont in 1961
     
  6. Dec 4, 2012 #26

    Battson

    Battson

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    A little research seems to suggest the treatment products or even the dye could be the source of the flammability.
     
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  7. Dec 4, 2012 #27

    litespeed

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    Yes,

    The leather is burning easily because of the dyes and treatment used in tanning, I wonder what the result would be with natural tanning processes?

    I do know you can get fire retardent treated leather but a natural tanned version may be just as good.

    All those gasses given off with the vinyl in a closed space even before full ignition- will Kill you well before any flames burn you.

    Keep in mind that in most cases with a house fire as a example- the gases given off by household fabrics, wall coverings and paints etc , is what kills. And very quickly- 15 seconds can be enough. Lots of people who die in fires have unburnt bodies.

    Keep up the search and testing- I am sure some suitable skin could be donated by one of the fat Kiwi cows or Deer or even some soft Sheep leather.

    Man has been making leather from skins for thousands of years and did not have nasty chemicals to do it.

    I will look around for some leather samples.

    Phil
     
  8. Dec 4, 2012 #28

    litespeed

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  9. Dec 5, 2012 #29

    bmcj

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    That's going to be the start of a "mad cowhide disease" epidemic! :gig:
     
  10. Dec 5, 2012 #30

    Detego

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    From what I'm reading: it's best feeding ruminants to ruminants; then brain tan their skin; to use the skin
    for aircraft seats. We use the Skins because - they look and feel good; while providing the benefits of fire
    protection - should one, accidentally set their @ss on fire.






    "Sacred cows make the best hamburgers" - Mark Twain
     
  11. Dec 6, 2012 #31

    Vigilant1

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    For what it's worth: Many organic materials (wood, paper, cotton, jute, etc) can be made fairly fire retardant by soaking them in a solution containing Borax (sold in the supermarket by the pound, near the laundry detergents) or boric acid (a major component of some roach and ant powders, also sometimes sold in drug stores). Borax is also used in the treatment/tanning of leather, and its use for that purpose may add to the fire resistance of some leathers. It will wash out, so it might not be a good choice for textiles that will be getting wet, but it might have applicability in some areas. Anyway, it's cheap and easy to get, so it experimenting with it is not a major hassle.

    "Instructables" with Borax treated paper (and test)

    Abstract on treatment of leather for fire retardancy
     
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  12. Dec 6, 2012 #32

    SVSUSteve

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    You might watch that in something that is going to be in contact with human skin. A significant number of folks are sensitive to borax. It was one of the original allergens identified in laundry detergents. Nothing would ruin a perfectly good flight like an itchy rash or hives.
     
  13. Dec 6, 2012 #33

    Vigilant1

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    Yep, and worse yet, having to tear out all the upholstery as a result. Thanks for the heads up. I'm not allergic to anything I know of, but there's always a first time.
     
  14. Dec 6, 2012 #34

    SVSUSteve

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    That would suck. As someone who is distinctly allergic to one of the most common moisturizers in use today (shea butter), I am more sensitive to the risk of skin allergies than most (no pun intended).
     
  15. Dec 7, 2012 #35

    Detego

    Detego

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    I maybe allergic to working with aluminum; a couple of weeks ago, while cutting and forming
    a pair of aluminum landing gear fairings; my hands started bleeding all over the place. It took
    a few weeks for my hands to eventually heal up, however the experience left my hands scared.
    That aluminum can be some nasty stuff to work around, for those allergic to it. True Story!


    aluminum allergies.gif





    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  16. Dec 8, 2012 #36

    skeeter_ca

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    Just for further reference was that 2024 or 6061, alcad or bare?
     
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  17. Dec 10, 2012 #37

    Battson

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    Sharp edges when you cut it eh...?
     
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