fast helicopters

Discussion in 'Rotorcraft' started by Georden, Oct 6, 2006.

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  1. Oct 6, 2006 #1

    Georden

    Georden

    Georden

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    I am just wondering if anyone has given any though to designing a high speed (~175kts) light helicopter. It seems all the 2 seat helicopters around have a cruise speed under 100kts which makes them impractical for any real cross country flying. For me this is one of the main issues why i'm leaning towards a fixed wing aircraft even though i find flying helicopters much more fun. The other obstacle is cost, but the extra fun would make it worth it i think, at least as long as i can afford to fly it.

    So i guess i would like to know if there is anyone else in the same boat as me and if there is anyone doing anything about it?
     
  2. Oct 6, 2006 #2

    orion

    orion

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    To the best of my knowlege, there is no project of this type being developed for the homebuilt market. The two primary reasons for the lack of product in this category is simply based on cost and market demand.

    This type of helicopter would be quite expensive to develop, which in turn would set even a kit price quite high.

    Couple this with the cost of operating a helicoper and the substantially fewer numbers of chopper pilots and you get a very limited market.

    The only program I've heard of is in Northern Florida where a gentleman is thinking of doing somethin like this but based on the hardware off of a Jet Ranger. But to the best of my information he's still only mulling over ideas and trying to figure out if he wants to fund such a risky venture.
     
  3. Oct 7, 2006 #3

    Topaz

    Topaz

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    Just out of curiosity, what happened to the Xantus? They were in tethered hover testing the last I heard about them, then the thing vanished like so many other projects.

    Their actual site is down, but it was cached here: http://www.skyaid.org/Skycar/Media/vtol1.htm

    I'm guessing stability and control problems in hover?
     
  4. Oct 7, 2006 #4

    CAB

    CAB

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    Big problem developing fast helicopters is keeping the advancing blade tip speed under "the mach". Not even the mighty U.S. miitary could get a chopper to go much faster then 170 kts. :wail: Much as I love wings that go round-and-round, I just cannot afford one:wail: :pout: .

    CAB
    Bearhawk#862
     
  5. Oct 7, 2006 #5

    Georden

    Georden

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    Even if you look at existing "fast" helicopters such as the Agusta 109 or S-76, both have a cruise speed 60+ knots better than any 2 seat light helicopters. the md500 is pretty small with the same rotor diameter as an R22 and it cruises at 130kts.

    I wonder how much faster combining a streamlined fuselage and a well designed rotor could get you with an aircraft of similar size/weight/power as an R22 or exec 162?
     
  6. Oct 8, 2006 #6

    Nathan Gifford

    Nathan Gifford

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    Besides, look at what all those high speed helicopters have in common...turbines! It ain't just for reliability, its for horsepower in a small package...
     
  7. Jan 21, 2007 #7

    KC135DELTA

    KC135DELTA

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    The the md500 can get up to 150kts quite easy, the As350 can also.
     
  8. Jan 22, 2007 #8

    Bob Kelly

    Bob Kelly

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    I'm not sure of the fastest top speed for a gyrocopter but it has to be up there with the fastest helo's.
    RTFM , Duncan in NZ is designing and building the prototype of a FAST gyro now, and it looks to be a winner in my book
    look for him on the Rotery wing forem he calls his creation the razor back .

    A well designed gyro can be a fantastic aircraft don't over look them ! they can do no roll landings and some can do jump take off's and their far cheeper than helo's but are easy to transport, unlike fixed wing craft.
    its a thought !
    ...
    Bob.......
     
  9. Jan 22, 2007 #9

    KC135DELTA

    KC135DELTA

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    the S-92 does 225mph so speeds well over 200 are possible.
     
  10. Jan 22, 2007 #10

    Rhino

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    Range is a problem too. Fast typically equals large fuel consumption. Helicopters are usually limited on fuel capacity.
     
  11. Nov 20, 2007 #11

    Don Hillberg

    Don Hillberg

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    The Rotermouse was tested up to 160++ mph during a film shoot,and the vne is still being explored.(On paper the vne is 220mph):roll:
     
  12. Dec 15, 2007 #12

    Tom...

    Tom...

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    Hiya All,

    I fly my 4 year old home built Helicycle at 120mph but cruse at 105-110 most of the time.

    Tom...
     
  13. Dec 16, 2007 #13

    Bob Kelly

    Bob Kelly

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    OOOH nice looking Copter ya got there TOM !
    hope ya don't mind answering a few questions about it !
    like what is the engine used and the gross weight of the thing
    and rotor used ?
    105 mph is hauling the mail on the ground thats for sure !
    in the air its moveing right along but not overly fast...
    i'm sure it would be fast enough for me thats for sure <GRIN>
    I sure would like to see some pictures of your helicopter Tom...as I am sure others would on here as well !
    its good to talk to someone that has DONE it ! thanks for posting !

    Bob.........
     
  14. Dec 28, 2007 #14

    Russell Myles

    Russell Myles

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    (From Wiki)

    Thats 216.45 knots! :ban:

    ...but then, as mentioned above, the turbine engines, advanced blades etc are probably outside most peoples budget :depressed, and getting the record was the only goal for the aircraft...


    http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/0,3038,827,00.pdf states Vne 165 knots (around 189 mph)...still faster than our Ec135 though, so shouldn't nit pick...I apologise
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
  15. Jan 15, 2008 #15

    joe nelson

    joe nelson

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    Hey Guys,

    Helicopters get stupid when driven to the speeds we're talking about. The absolute record for helicopters 249 mph set by a Westland Lynx with some very special rotor blades (berb). A condition called "retreating blade stall" happens the faster you go. It causes the the helo to roll toward the retreating rotor blade with a tendency to pitch up. That can ruin your day if you don't catch it quickly enough.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2008 #16

    Bob Kelly

    Bob Kelly

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    Right O Joe ! Hay hows the swashplate experiment comeing along ? have you found any time to work on it ? .... Bob.........
     
  17. Jan 16, 2008 #17

    joe nelson

    joe nelson

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    Bob,

    Are ya snowed in yet? I just got my lathe and it's still on the floor. My stand should be coming soon then I'll get back to working on the swash plate. I have been working on my blades but it's been too cold to lay-up any glass. My shop only stays about 20 degrees above OAT.....buuuurrrr.

    The swash plate prototype is still sitting on my bench where it was before X-mas. I have been doing some reverse engineering on a few other components. My school starts again Monday so I've been slacking off a bit today. lol
     
  18. Jan 16, 2008 #18

    Bob Kelly

    Bob Kelly

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    HAHHA ! yah take advantage if the free time while ya have some Joe ! Here I figured you'ed have been makeing gears by now or candle sticks or SOMETHING ! hehehehehe I started melting Alumimum about the time I got my 3 in 1 machine and it has provided me with a bunch of alum to turn into shaveings on the lathe! hehehe or chips from the Mill..... you might look into doing that yourself it gives ya a bunch of meterial that you'ed normially not have ! good stuff to learn on ! ...I melted up a bunch of old window screen holders and scrap alumimum as well as motorcycle engine pieces I poured them into 1" to 2" copper tubeing and then beat on the tubeing to streach the outer shell till the alum rod slides out.... other things like square pipe I've filled and have to knock it out... some times it can be a bear to get the metal out but if you pick a good clean tube it usually comes out fairly easy ... I also found that after it cools you can lay the filled tube accross the furnace to heat up the shell to hot to the touch and usually get the metal to just slide out...but not alwayse! .... I know what you mean about the rotor laying up, I'm in the same boat my rotors are waiting for warm weather so I can finish them but I did get them completely covered before it snowed ! so this summer should prove weather my laminations worked or not ! HAHAHAHA .... we had 17" of snow here last week but its down to about 8" now with a good 3" of Ice on top of it.... colder than a well diggers destination! ... Keep after it my friend and have fun ! Bob........
     
  19. Jan 17, 2008 #19

    joe nelson

    joe nelson

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    Bob,

    In v'school we made a nice hammer. You used every technique in making it you would normally use on the lathe. Right now I look like Linus playing his piano since it sits on two furniture dollies, lol.

    What I'm researching, is replacing the fiber glass on my blades with carbon fiber. Another idea was to make the hub bar from carbon fiber as well. This will be a summer project though.
     
  20. Jan 18, 2008 #20

    Bob Kelly

    Bob Kelly

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    the idea of carbon fiber to replace good tempered Alumimum scares the heck out of me ! WHY DO THAT ? for a few pounds weight saveings you will have something you never can trust ! ... Sure carbon fiber is supposed to be super strong, last forever etc,etc. but so is the Alumimum ! Paul Bruty used a Carbon fiber landing gear main strut ...and although the vote is still out on what caused the crash its obvious that the landing wwas hard enough to break something ! Possably the carbon fiber landing gear strut....had that been tempered steel like that used on some Veri-ease's that would not have happened, as they can be forced completely flat and they return to their shape....without breaking! ...in my book carbon fiber is a hazard because people rely too much upon its trimdious striength, good o'l fiberglass Polister reson and glass cloth is more than a match for aircraft needs, if you need more striength than that then add METAL not something that they guage striength in the threds, and you have no control of the thred itself ! you have no idea weather the stuff you bought is top quality as its only a part of the whole laying up proccess.... if you don't do the rest correctly it doesn't matter how good the cloth is .... many people love Carbon fiber, I have realy never messed with it but have formed an opinion of it never the less... yes its strong but it can be applied to where its brittle, just like fiberglass if it is it can brake like glass..... personally I don't want that on my aircraft. I do have fiberglass on my aircraft mainly because I know how to apply it and know to watch it closely... I have Fiberglass on my prop and rotor but NEATHER of these things are relying on the striength of the fiberglass to hold it togather... its mainly to toughen up the wood ! weatherproof it and smothe it out. ...I caution anyone relying soly upon carbon fiber or fiberglass in and of itself to do the entire job of what its applied to...I simply have seen too many plastic things brake into pieces! ... just my opinion for what its worth ! .... .... and I bet you look funny sitting infront of the lathe like Linus Joe.... set it on 2- 55gallon drums or something ! HAHAHHAHA ...my 3 in 1 machine weighs about 300lbs but I can take many things off so I can move it myself the bed is the heaviest probly about 150lbs in itself.... I set it on my Dads Home made Roll-away that he made while he was working at Arrow Jet General in L.A. needless to say its plunty strong to hold the machine and it just happens to be close to the right height too. ...how much does your lathe weigh Joe ? and what is it ? ...I know ya told me once but i forget ! ... Bob..........
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008

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