Experimental Soaring Association 40th Western Workshop

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
295
Location
LA area, CA
Hi all, we are pulling together the 40th WWS to be held in Tehachapi, CA Labor Day Weekend 2021. Avoiding death from the CCP virus and other thing forced the cancelation in 2020. Our new newsletter editor, who is based in New England is trying to organize a get together there. I am going to give a forum at Airventure 2021; " E-AB Towplanes = Low Cost Soaring". More information to follow. Join us.
Murry
 

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
295
Location
LA area, CA
Hi BB, My understanding: E-AB tow planes can be used for non commercial use like clubs or a group of friends.
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
15,513
Location
Port Townsend WA
I was thinking towing might not be "carrying persons or property"*. So open for commercial use somehow.

* 91.319(2) only restricts carrying persons or property for compensation, which seems to allow other uses for compensation. It doesn't say all uses are restricted from compensation. Towing does not involve passengers at all like instruction or rides.
 
Last edited:

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
10,066
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
I hope I get to be there in Tehachapi... but I may have to help a friend shoot a fireworks show in LaJolla that weekend. The environmentalists in the People's Republic of San Diego managed to get his fireworks show cancelled 36 hours before we shot it on July 4, so the event producers postponed it to Labor Day. (Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Democratic party?)

Much rather be in Tehachapi with MM4440 and several of you guys. We'll see.
 

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,768
Location
Orange County, California
PayPal is being pissy, and is demanding far too much personal information. We had to shut down the payment portal. Contact Murry above via PM, and he can get you signed up.
 

proppastie

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
5,454
Location
NJ
I want to pass my load test before I think about much else....
 

Viking9606E

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
2
Hi all, we are pulling together the 40th WWS to be held in Tehachapi, CA Labor Day Weekend 2021. Avoiding death from the CCP virus and other thing forced the cancelation in 2020. Our new newsletter editor, who is based in New England is trying to organize a get together there. I am going to give a forum at Airventure 2021; " E-AB Towplanes = Low Cost Soaring". More information to follow. Join us.
Murry
I joined the ESA over a year ago, never received any newsletters, the website hasn't been updated in at least rwo years.....
Murray
 

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
295
Location
LA area, CA
Hi, we are a volunteer run organization and are "Graying Out". Our webmaster, due to the press of business has withdraw. We were without a newsletter for a time when Andy retired and moved to TX. Dr. Bob was overwhelmed by a lack of submissions and withdrew after an excellent effort. We have a new newsletter editor who is waiting for submissions. If we do not have a volunteer to takeover the webmaster job who knows what they are doing, I will be forced to learn on the job. Are you building? Designing? Dreaming? Put it together for our NL.
 

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,768
Location
Orange County, California
Murry, send me the updates for the website for the workshop announcement and I'll get them posted. I'll e-mail you as a follow-up. For all concerned, I've been the webmaster for ESA since about 2018, but the same things that have been keeping me from HBA until recently have been keeping me away from the ESA's website, too. We still need to find a new webmaster, but I'll keep announcements going until that person comes along. I happen to be in a lull between projects at the moment, but that's going to end in a matter of weeks.

Viking, I'm sorry for your experience. Murry accurately described what's going on above. It's the usual problem with clubs - everyone wants the benefits but very few people want to do any of the work. I've never been in a club that didn't have this problem, and every club hits a crisis about it at some point. ESA is going through its "hard time" with that over the last couple of years.
 

Fiberglassworker

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2021
Messages
55
Topaz,
I too am a member of ESA and have lectured in the past at the western workshop. Bob I believe had a Slingsby T53 sailplane , do you know if he still has it? There were some drawings associated with an AD from Slingsbys that I did in 1975, I would like to get copies them, if he still has them. Slingsbys no longer support the aircraft.
 

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,768
Location
Orange County, California
Topaz,
I too am a member of ESA and have lectured in the past at the western workshop. Bob I believe had a Slingsby T53 sailplane , do you know if he still has it? There were some drawings associated with an AD from Slingsbys that I did in 1975, I would like to get copies them, if he still has them. Slingsbys no longer support the aircraft.
Murry (mm4440 here on HBA) would probably be your best contact for Bob. If that fails, PM me and I can put you into contact with the drawing archivist for the Vintage Sailplane Association. He might have digital copies.
 

Fiberglassworker

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2021
Messages
55
I have been in contact with Neal , he does not have anything yet. His buddy Harry just acquired a T53 so that may change.
 

Viking9606E

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
2
Murry, send me the updates for the website for the workshop announcement and I'll get them posted. I'll e-mail you as a follow-up. For all concerned, I've been the webmaster for ESA since about 2018, but the same things that have been keeping me from HBA until recently have been keeping me away from the ESA's website, too. We still need to find a new webmaster, but I'll keep announcements going until that person comes along. I happen to be in a lull between projects at the moment, but that's going to end in a matter of weeks.

Viking, I'm sorry for your experience. Murry accurately described what's going on above. It's the usual problem with clubs - everyone wants the benefits but very few people want to do any of the work. I've never been in a club that didn't have this problem, and every club hits a crisis about it at some point. ESA is going through its "hard time" with that over the last couple of years.
I understand completely. If I can come up with something of use I will submit it. I am looking forward to hearing the forum about using experimental tow planes at Airventure later this month.
 

gtae07

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
2,231
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Hi BB, My understanding: E-AB tow planes can be used for non commercial use like clubs or a group of friends.
A prohibition on towing (and on intentional parachute jumping) is in the list of operating limitations that are supposed to be issued for E-AB, regardless of whether it's a commercial application or not. I guess the FAA figures there's not a case where someone wouldn't be getting compensated. If you can somehow get that removed/omitted...
 

mm4440

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
295
Location
LA area, CA
A prohibition on towing (and on intentional parachute jumping) is in the list of operating limitations that are supposed to be issued for E-AB, regardless of whether it's a commercial application or not. I guess the FAA figures there's not a case where someone wouldn't be getting compensated. If you can somehow get that removed/omitted...
I think that statement comes in a sample operating limitation and is not a regulation. I am far from a FAR expert. My contacts in the EAA have brought the subject up in the Mosaic talks and the FAA people seem to be OK with E-AB towplanes for non commercial use. LSA's can tow LSA gliders and ultralights. A tow pilot needs only a Private Pilot to tow commercially. Regs are evolving, slowly.
 
Top