Experimental Placard

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by TXFlyGuy, Jun 10, 2019.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jun 10, 2019 #1

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    As we are almost done with the paint shop, is there a way around the reg requiring the 2 inch experimental placard to be placed in or on the aircraft?

    I do know of a few home built aircraft that do not have the placard.

    How do you get around it, and stay legal?


    P1030671.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. Jun 10, 2019 #2

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Have fun with it....
    [​IMG]

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  3. Jun 10, 2019 #3

    Dana

    Dana

    Dana

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    2,855
    Location:
    CT, USA
    I seen to recall reading somewhere that if you use an "NX" number you don't need the "EXPERIMENTAL" lettering. You still need the passenger warning placard, though.
     
  4. Jun 10, 2019 #4

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    Would the "NX" be in the registered number with the FAA, or can you just add the X to the number at a later date?
     
  5. Jun 10, 2019 #5

    gtae07

    gtae07

    gtae07

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,730
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    Location:
    Georgia
    Only certain aircraft are eligible for the NX number. I don’t know if a P-51 replica is. May depend on how old the design is. I think the RV-4 and RV-6 are now eligible.

    You don’t need the warning on a single-seater.
     
  6. Jun 10, 2019 #6

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Tehachapi, CA
    CFR 14 Part 45.23(b). _IF_ you have an "N" number that only has an "N" as the prefix, THEN you need the "Experimental" lettering. If you had an "NX" registration, then you wouldn't need the "EXPERIMENTAL" lettering.

    Depending upon when your OL's were written and what they say, they MAY require the Passenger warning. Interestingly (and strangely) enough, mine, which were written in 2002, don't. New ones certainly do, as Order 8130.2J, #41, states it explicitly for the E-AB OL's. I do have the warning, though... It's never scared anyone away.
     
  7. Jun 10, 2019 #7

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Tehachapi, CA
    See 14 CFR 45.22(b) for the rules.
     
  8. Jun 10, 2019 #8

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    So the "X" is not part of the official registration number, it simply identifies the aircraft as in the experimental category?

    So I will just order an X, and insert it into the number:

    NX15180
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  9. Jun 10, 2019 #9

    Dana

    Dana

    Dana

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    2,855
    Location:
    CT, USA
    P6162290~2.JPG
     
    akwrencher likes this.
  10. Jun 10, 2019 #10

    tralika

    tralika

    tralika

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    Wasilla Alaska
    You might want to ask the DAR before you put anything on your newly painted airplane. The DAR's opinion/interpretation is the only one that counts.
     
  11. Jun 10, 2019 #11

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,131
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    You will have to have it. No DAR is going to overlook it. Military font in a spot that would be appropriate for passenger and possible integrated into a panel placard. My plane has s a single seat. I want to say. Something like it’s a single seat airplane dummy no passengers allowed so I’m prying your grip off my plane. Long time ago, The regional I worked for had some crazy jump out of a bush run and jump on the wing of a Jetstream. Goggles leather helmet and all. He lost his grip at about 100 ft in the air. Landed on the fence.
     
  12. Jun 10, 2019 #12

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Tehachapi, CA
    Did you read the rule? It says:

    (b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under § 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with §§ 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:

    So if your plane is 30 years old, _OR_ if it's the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago, THEN you can use the NX designation. A copy of an airplane that merely looks vaguely like something more than 30 years old doesn't qualify.
     
  13. Jun 10, 2019 #13

    Sprucemoose

    Sprucemoose

    Sprucemoose

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It seems folks are confusing the NX rules with the passenger warning placard rules. They are two different things and only tangentially related.
     
  14. Jun 10, 2019 #14

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    A number of Van's RV aircraft qualify for this.
     
  15. Jun 10, 2019 #15

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    The EXPERIMENTAL placard, 2" tall. That is what we would like to omit, if possible. By employing the NX if allowed.
     
  16. Jun 10, 2019 #16

    Sprucemoose

    Sprucemoose

    Sprucemoose

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Without knowing exactly what you are building it’s hard to answer but Mark cited the relevant FARs. It can be done- I did it with the Breezy 2 years ago but mine met the strict letter of the FARs. Your situation may or may not.

    Can you tell us exactly what your airplane is? That would help sort it out.
     
  17. Jun 10, 2019 #17

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    It is a replica WWII aircraft.

    IMG_0331.JPG
     
  18. Jun 10, 2019 #18

    Deuelly

    Deuelly

    Deuelly

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    Marshall, MN
    TX,
    The prototype T-51 would have to have been built at least 30 years ago to use the "X".

    Brandon
     
    TXFlyGuy likes this.
  19. Jun 11, 2019 #19

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Tehachapi, CA
    A number of Vans aircraft are more than 30 years old - read the first part of the paragraph.
     
  20. Jun 11, 2019 #20

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Tehachapi, CA
    That's not a replica. It's a small plane that looks reasonably like a P-51, but clearly isn't and no-one would ever confuse it for one. A replica would be the original size, with the original lines, built out of the original materials (or really close).

    Hey - you can put "NX" on your plane and leave off the "Experimental" lettering - the chance that a ramp checker would ever notice or know the difference it minuscule, but that doesn't mean that you meet the regulations.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white