Experimental (ELSA / E-AB) No Longer Allowed for Flight Training??

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Robert Dingus

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It has been 18 days since I reached out to my contact and so far I have been passed up the food chain with no response. It looks like this site had no clue about what had happened in the case killing us light sport students that bought aircraft to finish our certificate and be legal pilots.

Robert
 

BBerson

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Ok, on the surface it looks like i am dead, i have the EAB Challenger 2 long wing. Experimental Amateur Built.
I could not afford the 30,000 + dollar factory built model, to ensure 100% ability to train legally.


Robert
It has never been legal to use Experimental Amatuer Built for hire in a flight school.
Some instructors have received exemption for transition training only, I think.
Just pay the instructors as before. Does your operating limitations prohibit non-rated pilots from solo flight?
 

TFF

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Operating instructions take precedence. What does the sentence say word for word?

Minus that above, the general rule is an owner of an experimental anything can have a friend teach him for free. Free. Payment is under the table if it goes on. It’s an experimental, money is not to ever change hands. That has been there since the first one.


If you are a CFI and the owner and want to charge in an experimental, it can only be done with a LODA , an exception letter, and it’s only going to be granted if the aircraft is not relatable to any other type. Special cases only for safety. Trainers are not special. P51s are.

Your CFI, if he is smart, will be on top of this and finding out, as messing up will get him fired from the regular flying job. AOPA and EAA hopefully are doing their job.

Did you have an examiner already say ok to testing in your plane?
 

Robert Dingus

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i am having a very hard time finding any CFI willing to use my aircraft to finish my training. i found one that may be willing however, he wants to see that i have insurance on the aircraft before committing, and then its a maybe as he has never flown a 2 seat pusher design like my Quad City Challenger 2 long wing before.

Then i have to find a DPE willing to do my checkride in my aircraft, its seems that an aircraft that has been around about 30 years is still unknown in the training and examining circles.

Robert
 

Rhino

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Operating instructions take precedence. What does the sentence say word for word?...
According to that letter from the FAA, even the operating instructions won't make a difference. There has to be a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) in all circumstances. EAA, AOPA and a bunch of other organizations sent a letter to the FAA protesting the interpretation in that FAA letter. It's interesting reading.

 

TJTX

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When I finish my airplane, as a current CFI and owner of the aircraft, could I legally train my daughter in it to earn her PPL? I'm not getting any compensation for it, in fact it would cost me money.
 

Dana

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  1. Some warbird guys were selling rides in limited category aircraft and calling it "instruction" to get around the "no commercial passengers" restriction.
  2. The FAA (rightfully) didn't like that and violated them.
  3. The warbird guys took it to court.
  4. Instead of ruling on whether it was instruction or passenger carrying, the aviation ignorant court said, "all instruction is passenger carrying", not knowing (or caring) that their ruling would effectively prohibit all paid instruction other than a full CFI (who already has a commercial certificate) in a standard category aircraft.
  5. I'm pretty sure the FAA has no desire to eliminate Sport Pilot and experimental transition training, so they'll get a new ruling or figure out some clever interpretation to make things as they were (except for warbird rides). Meanwhile, they're not going to start any enforcement actions against SP-CFIs who are operating by the FAA's own rules.
 

cluttonfred

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That’s one heck of a letter, it’s going to be interesting to see how the FAA responds.

EAA, AOPA and a bunch of other organizations sent a letter to the FAA protesting the interpretation in that FAA letter. It's interesting reading.
As I understand it, the key issue has always been money changing hands, so I don’t see how this would affect you teaching your daughter for free.

When I finish my airplane, as a current CFI and owner of the aircraft, could I legally train my daughter in it to earn her PPL? I'm not getting any compensation for it, in fact it would cost me money.
 

BBerson

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experimental transition training
Transition training is allowed for certificated Sport or Private pilots. But not primary training involving student solo because student solo is prohibited in the operating limitations of the newer E-AB aircraft.
 

Rhino

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Transition training is allowed for certificated Sport or Private pilots...
If you have a LODA, which apparently have expiration dates. That's part of the FAA letter that EAA, AOPA and others are protesting. The FSDOs are going to be flooded with LODA requests. And since they expire, additional requests later. I think this qualifies under the law of unintended consequences. The guys at the FAA who wrote that letter probably had little or no idea what a can of worms they were opening.
 

Dana

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Transition training is allowed for certificated Sport or Private pilots. But not primary training involving student solo because student solo is prohibited in the operating limitations of the newer E-AB aircraft.
When did that happen? The updated op lims for my Hatz (2019) have no prohibition of student solo.

Hiring a CFI for transition training in the pilot's own experimental is fine, if the instructor is providing the aircraft a LODA is needed.
 

BBerson

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The updated op lims for my Hatz (2019) have no prohibition of student solo.
It doesn't say solo is prohibited, it says the pilot in command must have a rating. Students don't have ratings.
I asked the FAA inspector a few years ago and he was firm a rating is required.
 

PagoBay

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964SS

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I don’t get it. If it’s an issue of flight instruction vs paid passenger, the flight I did with the organization was definitely instruction. There was a pre-flight briefing, I taxied, took off, did all the maneuvers, and landed the P-40 with him talking me through it. He even demonstrated a few things then had me perform. Post flight briefing and logbook entry. Very professional.
Hell, I was even going to return for more training to take check ride until this reared up. FAA is a joke
 
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