If the flying is incidental (i.e. - the choice to fly, drive, walk, buy a ticket has no impact on how the job is done), then yes, it is OK. You can be paid for your time and expense.
experimental aircraft for business use
- Thread starter gschuld
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Yes. In general, you can't earn money with a PPC by using the airplane for gain, but you can use (and claim expenses) for using your personal plane to get to jobs, etc (just like you'd claim miles for using your private auto).
The government rate for private air travel is pretty high ($1.31 per mile). I frequently work on government contracts, and if I claimed that I probably wouldn't be asked to do any more work for that customer. What would be acceptable in my case (and this is my opinion, and what others have done in my line of work) is to show what the cost would have been for air travel by commercial air (i.e. print out the page from Expedia showing an acceptable routing and ticket price) and then ask for reimbursement of that amount, if it is less than the Private Plane mileage amount. If the airline ticket is more than the private plane mileage amount, provide it anyway to show that you saved the customer money.
Another practical consideration: If you need to be at a particular place at a particular time, you need to be able to fly IFR and (in some cases) into known icing. The private plane can be an okay means of getting there, but most of us need a backup plan--and for me, that is my car. I'm willing to drive 600 miles in a day, so that's the practical limit of my ability to use my plane to travel on "date certain" business (assuming I get a full travel day on either end.)
Battson
Well-Known Member
Things are a little different over here in NZ.
Law states you cannot operate an AB aircraft for "hire or reward". So hire and reward precludes getting paid for doing anything in your plane.
If the Authority wanted to push it, that could probably include your own business paying for you to fly places in your AB aircraft. While I know some people disagree with that interpretation, and some even operate their AB aircraft for activities similar to banner towing with a reward (payment), to me it seems extremely clear cut: No reward allowed, monetary or otherwise.
I would tend do disbelieve the comments about tax law saying your decisions have to make the best business sense, you can't legislate for good business decision making.
Law states you cannot operate an AB aircraft for "hire or reward". So hire and reward precludes getting paid for doing anything in your plane.
If the Authority wanted to push it, that could probably include your own business paying for you to fly places in your AB aircraft. While I know some people disagree with that interpretation, and some even operate their AB aircraft for activities similar to banner towing with a reward (payment), to me it seems extremely clear cut: No reward allowed, monetary or otherwise.
I would tend do disbelieve the comments about tax law saying your decisions have to make the best business sense, you can't legislate for good business decision making.
N8053H
Well-Known Member
EAB's do not need to keep logs. Nothing in the regs say I have to keep a set of logs on my EAB. The only log book I need is one that is signed with a Condition Inspection. I do not need nor have to have flight logs nor engine logs.
Tony
haiqu
Well-Known Member
Sure, but it would make sense to have them:
1. For resale value of the airplane
2. For determining business flights as above
The IRS won't care whether the FAA require it, it's they who will require it.
1. For resale value of the airplane
2. For determining business flights as above
The IRS won't care whether the FAA require it, it's they who will require it.
skydawg
Well-Known Member
There are only a few ways to charge for exp aircraft use. FAA can issue waiver to train pilots specific to that aircraft type, not including any other training. Exhibition can charge for things like making movies. Current FAA policy states flight training is allowed in experimentals as long as there is no compensation for use of the plane. I’m teaching my daughter to fly in a c172 with a V8 engine. Policy would also allow for an experimental flying club as long as club is equity type- members all own share of planes- and reasonable fees are charged.
As far as towing and other commercial uses, that would be a hard sell if questioned, and there is likely specific prohibits in experimental limitations. However, some experimentals that were previously certified may possibly obtain a restricted category AC, such as many of the fire fighting aircraft or agricultural aircraft.
one other option to hire the plane out would be under public aircraft operations category, which releases you from most FAA requirements. This is common for many unusual aircraft operating under a government entity, such as old warbirds that tow drones for military. this would mostly require the government entity to accept responsibility for aircraft’s safe operations and issue you a written contract with specific details and signed by someone with authority in that entity. however, it’s only valid during that mission, but you keep your current experimental AC allowing you normal operations under experimental operating limitations.
so there are some possibilities to hire out any EXP aircraft, but it’s limited.
As far as towing and other commercial uses, that would be a hard sell if questioned, and there is likely specific prohibits in experimental limitations. However, some experimentals that were previously certified may possibly obtain a restricted category AC, such as many of the fire fighting aircraft or agricultural aircraft.
one other option to hire the plane out would be under public aircraft operations category, which releases you from most FAA requirements. This is common for many unusual aircraft operating under a government entity, such as old warbirds that tow drones for military. this would mostly require the government entity to accept responsibility for aircraft’s safe operations and issue you a written contract with specific details and signed by someone with authority in that entity. however, it’s only valid during that mission, but you keep your current experimental AC allowing you normal operations under experimental operating limitations.
so there are some possibilities to hire out any EXP aircraft, but it’s limited.
Exchanging money makes it impure...
Been working on some fairly compact jig designs for the Cub Major. I will also be replicating each piece of wood in PVC so I will have a dimensionally stable duplicate that I can use for setting up repeat cuts quickly and without measuring on the table saw with a miter sled. This stuff will live out in my hanger which will be essentially a builder assist location. A guy can come out and in a few days walk out with a fuselage or wings or a tail, ready for covering, for a very reasonable cost. Also been trying to get a line on CVG southern cypress from some sawyers in Louisiana, if not, I have place I can get Doug Fur all day long. My accountant seems to think that if the location is used sufficiently, I should be able to deduct my hanger rent. Maybe I can't deduct my flying, but I can lower my costs via deducing the hanger which will be used for business. I am not holding my breath on that one, as wood aircraft builds are getting rarer by the day, but you never know. I have to think there are least a few guys who would rather spend some time cutting a gluing for a few days or weeks, rather then driving thousands of rivets over a few years.
Attachments
We used the company aircraft 100% for business use. Need to keep very good records for the FAA and IRS use. My CPA was also a CPA for a 135 operation, so he knew the FAR's and kept me out of trouble with both. Aircraft and pilot had to be IFR current at all times .
I miss those days most of the time, but not always. Don't miss flying in the NE in the winter.
I miss those days most of the time, but not always. Don't miss flying in the NE in the winter.
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TFF
Well-Known Member
As long as a farmer or other uses it personally in the business that is not the business, there is. no problem. If the farmer sell the use to a neighbor, that is a no no. Anything in between will be settled in court, if caught. Nothing says one can get away with it.
I would like to stockpile some of that Doug Fir. I would be digging through getting every airworthy board I could afford.
I would like to stockpile some of that Doug Fir. I would be digging through getting every airworthy board I could afford.
Show me the law that says you have to pay federal income taxes on labor or services provided and I will gladly pay it.
Show me the law that says you have to pay federal income taxes on labor or services provided and I will gladly pay them.
I live in southern Louisiana and deal in Cypress and have done so for a long time. Sinker Cypress, Tide water red/yellow, pecky, you name it. If you really need some let me know.
pfarber
Well-Known Member
... for COMPENSATION or hire.Much like any other kind of enforcement agency if they want to they can always find a violation or way of blocking you, its all a matter of looking hard enough into the tangle of regulations and how much authority they want to abuse.
Flights and inflight instruction are free. Book rental and in classroom training are at $1500/hr.
The FAA had deemed that ANY compensation, with ANY nexus to an E/AB is enough to trigger the rule.
The only reason you are getting paid to rent the classroom is becuase the E/AB... so you are operating the E/AB for compensation.
Even saying you are giving ground instruction and 'free' airplane class time won't 'fly'. The only reason the classroom is being rented is to fly the airplane.
The FAA knows that if it allowed E/ABs for paid flight training the fleet of 172's, 150/152s, Cherokees etc would all sit unused as the cost to fly them is the major portion of the PPL expense. Cessna's and Piper's GA sales would just stop and Lycoming and Cont would probably never sell another new engine again.
Doran Jaffas
Well-Known Member
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You can get your license in your experimental airplane. Paying the instructor to fly with you. The instructor however cannot use their experimental airplane to give you instruction.
Turd Ferguson
Well-Known Member
Unless they hold LODA. There's so few of those they can be listed on one page.
Letters of Deviation Authority Holders (LODA Holders) | EAA
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Your biggest issue might be convincing your work that the costs are comparable to commercial.
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Where is the Douglas Fir from?
