engine management

Discussion in 'Mazda Rotary' started by slociviccoupe, May 29, 2011.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. May 29, 2011 #1

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Palm Bay Fl.
    Know whats out there, tracy cook's ec3 seems most promising. But can others be used in aircraft. like motec, microtec, haltec, megasquirt, ect?

    asking because there are many rotary engine tuners here in central florida and petit racing down in palm beach not far from me, as well as gato racing, ortiz racing. all very well known rotary shops. Most are drag racing and street car shops but have lots of very usefull knowledge and tuning skills for these engines. and would like to have them tune my engine management but not stick them with something their not used to. Most are using microtec.

    also I know an engine dyno doesn't simulate actual load conditions but can get me really close. what is some of the load conditions that would have to be entered to simulate takeoff, climb, cruise, ect?

    the aftermarket stand alone ecu's have a broad variety of sensor and switched inputs/ outputs. along with the engine's map sensor the ecu can read a seperate air pressure sensor to be used for change in altitude. there can be intake air temp and ambient air temp, coolant temp is standard, eccentric shaft position, tps, individual injector outputs and individual coil outputs. egt inputs, fuel pressure. almost anything can be done as long as all the inputs/ outputs arent used up.
     
  2. May 30, 2011 #2

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Dayton OH
    I'm using MS-3 for my piston engine. Sorry, I have no experience with Mazda rotaries.
    Jan
     
  3. May 30, 2011 #3

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Palm Bay Fl.
    how do you like the megasquirt? i have a friend running it on his miata, and another running it on a bmw. they run but i don't know how user friendly the software is.
    Also can it control 4 injectors individually as well as 4 individual coils? ive been to the megasquirt site and read about it. but never really had any interest in it. but its always a thought.
     
  4. May 31, 2011 #4

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Yucaipa, Ca
    I'm sure any of those after market systems would work just fine. Each probably have thier ups and downs. The most item i like about the EC-3 is the fully redundant ECM system always ready to be switched over to in case something happens to the running system. I suppose you could buy two of the other systems and hook them up to run either with the flip of a switch but that might be a bit more expensive and more complicated. I really don't see any advantage of the other systems. They are all going to put out the same power using the same timing and injection curves as the EC-3 would be programmed with. You don't run aircraft engines like a race engine. You are at a constant speed most of the time with only a minor amount of changes during a flight.
     
  5. Jun 1, 2011 #5

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Dayton OH
    I think the MS-3 software is great and well thought out. With MS-3x (expansion card) you can control 8 COPs & 8 injectors.
    Jan
     
  6. Jun 1, 2011 #6

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Palm Bay Fl.
    is it adjustable like able to richen and lean it out from a handheld programmer and not just a laptop?
     
  7. Jun 1, 2011 #7

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Dayton OH
    A special hand held programmer, like an Ipod? Wow, you are particular. I don't know, the laptop works great for me.
     
  8. Jun 2, 2011 #8

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Palm Bay Fl.
    doesn't have to be ipod or anything. just a simple device to be able to add or take away fuel or timing without having to hook up a laptop. like in that oh crap moment when it starts to surge during takeoff or climb and your loosing power because its lean or rich and don't have time to look at fuel and ignition maps on the laptop.
     
  9. Jun 2, 2011 #9

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    jumpinjan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Dayton OH
    ??? I'm pretty sure you don't need something like that, you should ONLY tune your fuel & spark maps.......on the ground (or on the dyno runs)
    Jan
     
  10. Jun 2, 2011 #10

    Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Respublica de Veridimontana
    I would speculate that you will be way too busy flying the airplane to worry about sucvh things until after a safe emergency landing has been made. Spend your efforts on a good freeze frame capability to give you good data to look at after the fact. Just my .02
     
  11. Jun 2, 2011 #11

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Yucaipa, Ca
    The EC-3 does have then leaning capability you are looking for. If using one of the automotive based systems you would have to map the mixtures you want on the ground and see how well they work in the air. Usually leaning and richening mixtures is not done during an emergency situation. I would think the auto based system would be a compromise between best power and fuel economy for all flight regimes. Leaning in the air would be done just to get the lowest fuel consumption possible while making sure you dont go into a lean misfire condition.
     
  12. Jun 5, 2011 #12

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    slociviccoupe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Palm Bay Fl.
    was only asking these questions because one individual online had the engine tuned on the ground using a laptop based programable ecu and had an emergency when the engine suddenly started surging. like mentioned he was unable to look at the laptop to add fuel because he was too busy completing an emergency landing on a city street. He had the engine tuned on the ground but during climb out it lost power. believe this to have been an rv based plane. Im quite competitant that my engine tuner will be able to get it dialed in, and convince him to go up with me for a few flights. but was just seing whats been used mostly. looks to be tracy crooks ecu, sds, or megasquirt. Im still leaning towards microtech because its what most rotary guys use and has the features meant for a rotary. also has tha additional inputs for more sensors and a potentiometer for mixture control. There is also digital dashes available that can display any sensor that can be input into the ecu. also a hand held programmer instead of a laptop.
    the only downside is there is no redundancy. only one set of sensors, only one set of primary and secondary injectors, and only one ecu. so still up in the air with choices.
     
  13. Jun 6, 2011 #13

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,707
    Likes Received:
    3,314
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Most of the time airplanes take off with the engine very rich to make sure there is no lean shut off and for cooling; they are only leaned once in the air. About the only exception is high altitude airports where you need to lean because of the density. It is a trade off of maximum power for safety.
     
  14. Jul 26, 2011 #14

    SHIPCHIEF

    SHIPCHIEF

    SHIPCHIEF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Great Northwet
    I'm using Tracy's EC2 controller for turbocharged engine with GM coils.
    I haven't flown yet, but I do have more than 4 hours ground running, and it's been fine.
    I mean it. It started on the first try even though I have injectors with a much higher flow rate than the base line calibration. A quick twist of the mixture control, then some simple program adjustments on the panel mounted switches and rheostat. (you do have to read the instructions)
    My unit has been superceded, but I still get great support and upgrades. The simplicity and a/b controllers are my reason for choosing Tracy, and I'm not dissapointed.
    Scott Emery
    Scott
     
  15. Aug 4, 2011 #15

    DLrocket89

    DLrocket89

    DLrocket89

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Janesville, Wi
    I looked into using a MS3 for a rotary awhile back (have since decided to go with a Lycosaurus). There's a switch you can wire in for a "table switch" function. Basically, gives you two complete different mappings on EFI, timing, etc. I was planning on having one position for full rich and one for cruise lean. If you run mogas, you can put an oxygen sensor in the exhaust and have it tune itself.

    There's also an addon where you can compensate for atmospheric pressure. Considered appropriate for cars making mountain runs...and airplanes, I would expect.
     

Share This Page



arrow_white