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wktaylor

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Random Thot/info... side-view related to the subject at hand.

These websites have come to my attention [stumbled-on] recently thru professional newsletters.

LaunchPoint Technologies: Hybrid Electric UAV Power and Propulsion Systems
Urban Air Mobility, Electrification and eVTOLs
Aerial Urban Mobility Projects – Global Rankings https://www.abbottaerospace.com/whats-new/aerial-u...
eVTOL Aircraft Directory eVTOL Aircraft Directory?
The Vertical Flight Society The Vertical Flight Society

NOTE. IF anyone is REALLY interested, I could provide a listing of SAE, ASTM, ASME, MIL, etc tech documents related to UAVs and/or electrification of aircraft. Geek technical but maybe long-term relevant.

Just saying. it's a surprisingly long list.
 

John.Roo

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Oct 8, 2013
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Location
Letohrad / Czech Republic
Joby Aviation's new electric AirTaxi...... 150+ miles......... established 2009, Joby Aviation has over 500 employees......see also "Reinvent Technology Partners"
Exciting times!
Well... exciting will be probably year 2024 ;)
But true is that 820 million USD from investors and 500 employees is impressive. I wonder what will be price for one unit if will be used for affordable air taxi service.

Joby Aviation is a California headquartered transportation company developing an all-electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft which it intends to operate as a fast, quiet, and affordable air taxi service from 2024. The zero emissions aircraft, which can transport four passengers and a pilot, can fly up to 150 miles on a single charge and can cruise at 200 mph. It is designed to help reduce urban congestion and accelerate the shift to sustainable modes of transit. Founded in 2009, Joby has raised $820 million in investment and employs more than 500 people. Joby has offices in Santa Cruz, San Carlos, and Marina, California, as well as Washington D.C. and Munich, Germany.
 

Mohawk750

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Ottawa, Ontario
We are in the hay day of an air mobility boom, great ideas, fantastic engineering awesome opportunities. Most of these companies will not survive the bust. Its a shame because some great tech will go by the weigh side. We need these companies to push the envelope and push the regulatory environment to a place where it is commercially viable to produce these things not to mention swaying public opinion to use them.

Like the snowmobile craze of the 70's, ultralight fad of the 80's, dot com boom of the nighties, etc. allot of money will be invested and lost and only a few will survive. There are big players in this space like Boeing, Airbus, Bell, Bombardier to name a few and they know what it will take to be successful in the long run. These companies are not seeking venture capital and creating buzz with photo shopped images and crow hops of prototypes. They don't need to.

Founded in 2009, Joby has raised $820 million in investment and employs more than 500 people. Joby has offices in Santa Cruz, San Carlos, and Marina, California, as well as Washington D.C. and Munich, Germany.
At an average salary of 100K for engineers, managers and executives over two thirds of their capital is servicing salaries, add infrastructure and other operating costs and how much is actually left for R&D?
 

Dan Thomas

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Sep 17, 2008
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5,655
Well... exciting will be probably year 2024 ;)
But true is that 820 million USD from investors and 500 employees is impressive. I wonder what will be price for one unit if will be used for affordable air taxi service.

Joby Aviation is a California headquartered transportation company developing an all-electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft which it intends to operate as a fast, quiet, and affordable air taxi service from 2024. The zero emissions aircraft, which can transport four passengers and a pilot, can fly up to 150 miles on a single charge and can cruise at 200 mph. It is designed to help reduce urban congestion and accelerate the shift to sustainable modes of transit. Founded in 2009, Joby has raised $820 million in investment and employs more than 500 people. Joby has offices in Santa Cruz, San Carlos, and Marina, California, as well as Washington D.C. and Munich, Germany.
Founded in 2009. What do they have to show for eleven years' R&D?
 

berridos

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madrid
Dont understand their advertisement:
82 kW machine presently in development:

  • 82kW at 6,200 rpm, 95% efficiency
  • 12.7 kg (28 lb)
  • 6.5 kW/kg (4 hp/lb)
  • .33 m diameter (13 inches)

That would solve all our problems))))
 

henryk

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Mar 8, 2010
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krakow,poland
Dont understand their advertisement:
82 kW machine presently in development:

  • 82kW at 6,200 rpm, 95% efficiency
  • 12.7 kg (28 lb)
  • 6.5 kW/kg (4 hp/lb)
  • .33 m diameter (13 inches)

That would solve all our problems))))
=Electric Motor...

f.e.=new american El.Motor =200 kW / 15 kg (circa 13 kW/kg !!!)
 

Dan Thomas

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Sep 17, 2008
Messages
5,655
EVERYTHING will change when this new battery hits "The Market".
Take a look!
Now, if anyone believes what that site says, I have a bridge for sale.

Here's what the guy claims:

-Drive your Tesla 9200 miles on a single charge

-Recharge in eight minutes

-Last for 12 million miles

-25 times more capacity than existing batteries

That sort of sudden increase in performance just has to be suspect, even for the young and gullible.

Just think about it for a minute. What sort of wattage would be required to recharge 9200 miles worth of kWh in eight minutes? Even to recharge it to 1/4 of capacity in that time would require huge current.
 
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henryk

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Now, if anyone believes what that site says, I have a bridge for sale.

Here's what the guy claims:

-Drive your Tesla 9200 miles on a single charge

-Recharge in eight minutes

-Last for 12 million miles

-25 times more capacity than existing batteries

That sort of sudden increase in performance just has to be suspect, even for the young and gullible.

Just think about it for a minute. What sort of wattage would be required to recharge 9200 miles worth of kWh in eight minutes? Even to recharge it to 1/4 of capacity in that time would require huge current.
9200 x 1.6= circa 15000 km...
Vavarage=150 km/h... T=100 h... N=100 kW P=10 000 kWh =10 MWh...

1 h charge= 10 MW power

0.1 h charge= 100 MW power !

f.e.=

You can by this charge station=
 

Sunbird

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Feb 21, 2015
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Namibia
The first thing you need to ask yourself is what the aim of the electric planes is? (Malovanny)
I really like this question...
The hybrid version of the question have perhaps a bit less to do with the present state of battery technology than pure electric has:
Why would you add electric motor(s) to the IC propulsion of your air vehicle design, given that you will incur a weight penalty?
One answer is probably S/VTOL, but especially VTOL. The evolving flying landscape is nudging VTOL from a 'nice to have' feature on our aerial machines to a 'must have'. VTOL is "hard" (read complicated, its part of the niche of helicopters), but the simplicity and power of electric motors are opening endless possibilities. The thought is that you need that 4 fold burst of battery power to overcome just that 10-15 seconds of "hard" into forward flight and then to proceed using (economic) IC propulsion only, and vice versa. In forward flight the battery(s) and motor(s) would end up as a weight penalty, but it is slowly becoming more and more bearable as the two technologies are advancing by becoming lighter.
The challenge would be to avoid to become as complicated as a helicopter, or perhaps one should simplify the helicopter. Although of a lower speed regime, it would have been interesting to provide electric propulsion and -control to the rotors of a winged bi-rotor gyrocopter, had they continued to exist. ;)
 

EzyBuildWing

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135
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Sydney NSW Australia
New lightweight high-tech Mercury outboard-motor is V-12 and 600 HP with 2-speed transmission.....would be very smooth in a Hybrid!
Could also be an excellent alternate to a turbine.
 

berridos

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madrid
Why would you add electric motor(s) to the IC propulsion of your air vehicle design, given that you will incur a weight penalty?
I would add highly swept tailless airplanes, in order to locate a feasible cog and improve pilot vision, not possible with a heavy and large ice in the nose.
 

Dan Thomas

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New lightweight high-tech Mercury outboard-motor is V-12 and 600 HP with 2-speed transmission.....would be very smooth in a Hybrid!
Could also be an excellent alternate to a turbine.
One needs to look at the specifications for any proposed powerplant, as well as price. That 600 hp Verado weighs 1260 pounds, a huge part of that will be powerhead weight. When outboards went from two-stroke to four-stroke, the weights pretty much doubled. The specs: Verado 600hp | Mercury Marine

The Price? This article Mercury Marine Now Offers Its First-Ever Outboard V-12 Boat Motor says it comes in at just under $80,000.

Outboards aren't cheap and never were. Some of that boating stuff makes airplanes look cheap. Ask me how I know...

I think $80k would buy a brand-new Lycoming IO-720, 400 HP. Ready to fly, too. No conversion necessary. $80K would also buy a significant chunk of some turboshaft engines, at far less weight.
 

Aesquire

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Rochester, NY, USA
I wouldn't add an electric motor and battery pack to an existing IC powered plane. For the same money and weight I'd just get a more powerful IC engine. There's no advantage with that with today's power density. A sci-fi Heinlein "Shipstone" super battery? Maybe.

I would consider an IC engine as a range extender on an electric powered plane. There's an Aussie with a home built electric car conversion that has a mini-trailer with a Honda generator so he can run the vast distances between cities. It's not that easy for an airplane.
 

Aesquire

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The imaginary battery you charge with a Thunder God certainly would be cause for conflict. Maybe not Global War, but far more personal concerns. There's a movie... ;)


It's cheap fusion, not a miracle battery, but the results, hard to tell apart from the trunk of a car sinking into the Ocean.
 
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