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Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by mcrae0104, Jun 1, 2019.
Exactly!!! Over a lousy $40.
I hope no one thinks they have a right to see these videos for free, or that EAA should be compelled to provide them for free.
I think it is a question of whether putting them behind a paywall is a good decision by EAA. This is the same decision a lot of publishers and organizations are grappling with. My opinion is that putting them out there for all to see would help EAAs efforts to promote the hobby and ultimately increase EAA membership. But they have the right to do whatever they want with them. I'll continue to be a member either way.
Getting into this discussion late in the game. You can’t get to the magazine archive without logging in, either. I don’t see that as a crime.
It’s EAA’s IP. If they make it for members only, then so be it. I can’t get Seaplane Pilots Association content without being an SPA member. Makes sense to me.
As a guy who works in an industry full of expensive-to-create IP, this I-demand-it-for-free mentality I see within today’s society is annoying. It’s the same as asking an artist/musician to do a think for you for nothing “for exposure”.
Make it part of my membership and I’m in, and I’ll spread the word.
$40 to get everything they offer is so insainly cheap I can't imagine complaining about a single thing.
$40 bucks. That's it.
It's not about $40. I'm already a member.
It's not about an entitled, demand-it-for-free attitude. Of course it's EAA's IP. (V1 nailed it above in #62.)
It is a question of whether EAA sees these videos as an olive branch to bring in new members or as a commodity. It's akin to closing your garage door when your neighbor walks by and wants to see what you're working on, and telling him he can have a look if he gives you a few bucks. Can you do that? Sure. Will you make many friends or generate interest in your project? Nope. Is that how Paul built the organization?
It probably wouldn't bother me except that it was free previously and it was a big part of getting me into this hobby. I'm not cynical enough to believe they care more about money than expanding the membership. I'm hoping maybe whoever made the decision just didn't think about the optics or the value of the videos as a way to expand the membership.
Same with the Flight Advisor and Tech Counselor list.
These Advisors are supposed to bring new people in to the sport and how to do it.
But they must be a member to view the list and get a phone number.
Reading some of other replies above, I do find it a little shifty that one would get to watch 15 seconds of content and then get the "Sorry Charlie" message.
It wasn't directed at you, I probably shouldn't have posted it because it came out wrong on my end. I do apologise.
I for me personally, I think it's a wise choice. But here's the rub.....
It's a wise choice ONLY if the content they provide is so good people want to be a member. In essence, it's a good test for them really. I say that because if it backfires on them they will know it was a mistake. $40 isn't much to ask in the airplane hobby to be part of something great. Will they lose people? Maybe, but it's a really really small number.
Yep, that is Capitalism. and I have a choice to buy or not. One of the best educations you can get is running a business.
No apology needed, Scrap. I know where you're coming from and I took no offense. I wanted to be sure I wasn't being misunderstood to be one of the "I shouldn't have to pay for anything and EAA sucks" crowd. We're in the same boat.
Yep. And I'd bet bottom dollar that guys that are doing this to help expose their ideas to the public will turn to a free forum like YouTube. The benefit of creating content for someone like Brian, Whose INCOME revolves around teaching sport aircraft maintenance, is WIDE exposure. The more people that see his videos, the more people become aware of his classes. It would be foolish to assume most of his students are EAA members. I'd guess a smart guy like Brian would offer them on both forums.
"No. But you could pay knowledgeable persons to make videos, then host them on a free site for anyone to watch."
I'd pretty much doubt any content creators were consulted on the new policy, but I may be wrong.
I watched the rise and fall of Hang gliding. Elitism reared it's ugly head hard enough and long enough to where most of the pilots just quit rather than play the game. Go to any slope, and all you will see are old geezers left--mostly flying REALLY expensive gliders often outside of their skill set. I've got two gliders in the shop, and everywhere I fly them, more and more people are leaving USHPA. The kids are flying paragliders--and not joining the club. There are rabid defenders of the club with the same arguments for exclusion, not inclusion.
I see the same thing happening at the airports I fly. A lot of these guys flying
classics and the new Light Sport designs don't even have the EAA on the register. And although some think its about the membership fees, It's not.
"$40 to get everything they offer is so insainly cheap I can't imagine complaining about a single thing."
Look, forty bucks isn't a tank of gas. It's not even a decent Pizza and Beer date with the wife. I've got more than that crumpled in my sock drawer. The disconnect isn't ABOUT the money. It's about the commercialization of something many of us hold dear. I keep using the rich preacher begging for money analogy for a good reason. Me dear old dad was a preacher. I always joked that you knew my dad was an honest preacher because he had to work a "real" job for a living. I asked him one time why he didn't pass an offering plate like all of the other churches we visited. He replied with a lesson about God not needing to shake down parishioners. The offering baskets were placed at the doors of the temple in the old days, and he figured that what good enough for God then was good enough now.
So in my eyes, this is just another shaking of the offering basket under the noses of the visitors to the temple of aviation, where a hug, a handshake, and a "welcome in" would serve better. Can I afford the $40? Sure. I can afford to pay a little more in taxes too. But I think both the taxes and the EAA dues get awful murkey at the top.
I wouldn’t have thought that for a minute.
As a TC that bothers me a lot. I want everyone to be safe, not just EAA members.
Yes they are.
The question is not should the content be free. Looking at some of the builder tips they look like a gold mine of great content that could easily justify a paywall if that is what everyone agreed from the start.
The question is also not can we afford it or is it even an unfair imposition. Of course we can and it is not really that bigger deal. As mentioned I would happily pay to ensure this remained free for all.
The question is it is morally corrupt to remove content created to be freely available much of which holds ground breaking and invaluable safety content? Of course it is and that is a big deal especially if it come from an organizing body that represents who we are. It is terribly bad move with no satisfactory commercial or capitalism based argument sufficient to justify it.
It also undermines the freedom of information idiom that underpins the roots of aviation safety culture and is in dereliction of the duty we all have to grow this culture.
Who here has lost friends in aviation? Many here I am sure. I have, good capable pilots. This is a demanding and unforgiving activity. We need each others wisdom to survive and our governing bodies to lead well. This is not good leadership.
Also understand this is not a green field question where everyone agrees on what to build here, it is more akin to putting up the Berlin wall overnight, or dividing Pakistan and India with a line. Those moves always cause chaos as we can see here.
This is not expensive IP. They got it for nothing from the generosity of this industries tech ambassadors.
Keep the webinars free.
Safety is the responsibility of the pilot in command. No exceptions. EAA is not responsible for that, this isn't Russia.
If you have concerns about safety then seek it out. For $40 I can link you to EAA and save you a ton of work.
EAA has a right to do this, it's capitalism, business. They have every right to make the rules with the content they have.
Again, maybe it's a bad decision as it concerns membership? Possibly. I'm a member so I don't care. But it's like the decisions I make in my business, I have to deal with the consequences of my decisions.
EAA is an absolute steal of a value. If anyone wants to get involved in aviation for $40 they are open to a great association and the sky literally is the limit. $40 for added safety to a human life? Cheap.
But hey, this is the new world we live in where everyone wants everything free and not only that they feel entitled so I'm probably wrong.
Nope, you are not wrong.
No you are not wrong Scrappy, this new world does sometimes feel overly entitled. And I agree EAA is a steal in value and what they have helped us create is one of the wonders of this free world. However this is not the point of this thread.
No one would disagree that the responsibility for safety of flight ends with the pilots and it that it starts with all of us.
If you want to have influence in this world you also have to accept the duty to others that comes with it. There is no free lunch and you can't have it both ways. Doesn't matter where in the world you are.
Any individual or organization that takes responsibly then is responsible, represents the many and needs to behave responsibly. If you want to be free from this responsibility one can choose not take it. EAA has chosen and is charged with responsibility and representation.
Undermining freedom of information intended to be and remain free is irresponsible. In aviation it should be criminal.
Webinars intended to be and remain free by their creators should remain just that.
This is just a bad decision by EAA.
It really is as simple as that.
Separate names with a comma.