# EAA video: members only?

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#### Dillpickle

##### Well-Known Member
" If the company is non profit" Pretty hard for me to see how the half million dollars in salary and perqs are "non-profit!" But here is my argument for the REST of yours. You see, I don't think people like Brian in the video below, and people Like FritzW and SO MANY OTHERS on this site are creating content for free, just so the pirate bastards at the You Pay The EAA can make a few more bucks! I think they have God-given talent and experience that they enjoy sharing with willing students. I think that the immoral bastards in charge of the EAA will realize that when people quit GIVING them info for them to sell. Face it. Ad revenue drives the net. Not pay sites. That's why news is free these days. Sure, some newspapers are begging their subscribers for--literally--a buck or two a month, but most of them have given up and gone to ad driven sites.

I told myself I wouldn't do this EAA Bashing again. THE MEMBERS of the EAA are some of the nicest, most generous people on this planet--hence all the formerly free content and zillions of hours of donated time at airshows. But the club is OWNED by a very few people who--I believe--take advantage of the many. They remind me of the old radio preacher exhorting little old ladies to empty their bank account, who then drive their Cadillac to the bank. Maybe I'm just sour that I don't get to fly donated P51 mustangs. Rant over.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
" If the company is non profit" Pretty hard for me to see how the half million dollars in salary and perqs are "non-profit!" But here is my argument for the REST of yours. You see, I don't think people like Brian in the video below, and people Like FritzW and SO MANY OTHERS on this site are creating content for free, just so the pirate bastards at the You Pay The EAA can make a few more bucks! I think they have God-given talent and experience that they enjoy sharing with willing students. I think that the immoral bastards in charge of the EAA will realize that when people quit GIVING them info for them to sell. Face it. Ad revenue drives the net. Not pay sites. That's why news is free these days. Sure, some newspapers are begging their subscribers for--literally--a buck or two a month, but most of them have given up and gone to ad driven sites.

I told myself I wouldn't do this EAA Bashing again. THE MEMBERS of the EAA are some of the nicest, most generous people on this planet--hence all the formerly free content and zillions of hours of donated time at airshows. But the club is OWNED by a very few people who--I believe--take advantage of the many. They remind me of the old radio preacher exhorting little old ladies to empty their bank account, who then drive their Cadillac to the bank. Maybe I'm just sour that I don't get to fly donated P51 mustangs. Rant over.
Nobody is taking advantage of anyone. That's absurd. Life is exactly what you make it. You can volunteer right now for the EAA and see for yourself. You can apply for a job as well. Are you a leader? Do you have leadership experience in aviation? Are you a forward thinker with a growth mindset looking for opportunities to grow aviation and help others?

Apply at the EAA. I know quite a few people at the upper level of EAA. They work incredibly hard, they don't complain, they just do. They participate.

That's the difference. If you don't like them go meet them and see for yourself. Do something about it.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Nobody is taking advantage of anyone. That's absurd. Life is exactly what you make it. You can volunteer right now for the EAA and see for yourself. You can apply for a job as well. Are you a leader? Do you have leadership experience in aviation? Are you a forward thinker with a growth mindset looking for opportunities to grow aviation and help others?

Apply at the EAA. I know quite a few people at the upper level of EAA. They work incredibly hard, they don't complain, they just do. They participate.

That's the difference. If you don't like them go meet them and see for yourself. Do something about it.
Some people find it much easier to take pot shots and complain.

BJC

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
To most people in the U.S. today, money is the bottom line.

When you try to become all things to all people you become very little to all people.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
P-51’s are expensive, but if you want to see one fly, someone has to pay for it.

Good leadership is expensive, too. If you want it, someone has to pay for it. (Would note here that Jack worked without a salary for his first two years at EAA.)

Jack took over from Hightower, who was a disaster. I don’t have to like, or agree with, everything that Jack or the EAA does, but I do recognize the many good things that they have accomplished.

Can’t stand the AOPA magazine, but I support AOPA as well as EAA, because sport aviation and homebuilding would not exist today without them.

You can be a participant in efforts to protect and improve sport aviation, or not; it’s up to you.

BJC

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
To most people in the U.S. today, money is the bottom line.

When you try to become all things to all people you become very little to all people.
I don't know. I meet 5-7 families a day in my business. I can honestly say most people are just trying to get through life, work pretty hard, they love family and none of it is easy. I don't know what most people are or do, that's too hard for me to calculate. I just know what I'm able to do and that's pretty difficult in itself. I try to be the example in the world, that's about all I'm required to do.

The EAA is just a bunch of guys and girls doing what they think is best.

#### FritzW

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
My local chapter is like my extended family but I have absolutely no use for national. They do a passing job of lobbying for sport aviation but as far as the "leadership" mentioned earlier, I don't see it.

They're not leading anything. They just pass down pre-packaged programs that were dreamed up by staff at national who have completely lost touch with the reality of what's going on.

The membership that national is looking for isn't restoring 3 million dollar warbirds or "building" a $250k turbine powered, glass paneled blahdeblah. ...how many of us spent hundreds of hours on the VP-21 thread discussing ways to build a realistic <$10k airplane? ...how many 'new guy' threads start with "looking for a good first project" ?

Take a look at all the hot topic threads on the HBA and other aviation newsgroups or what's going on at your local chapter/airport, compare that to what's coming out in Sport Aviation.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
So what. There's nothing wrong with that at all. If a stranger's net worth effects your desire to help yourself and others in a hobby then you are destined to failure. Instead of worrying about others focus on improving yourself. Be the solution.

You quit because a stranger has a net worth you don't approve of. When in the history of the planet has that ever solved anything.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
My local chapter is like my extended family but I have absolutely no use for national. They do a passing job of lobbying for sport aviation but as far as the "leadership" mentioned earlier, I don't see it.

They're not leading anything. They just pass down pre-packaged programs that were dreamed up by staff at national who have completely lost touch with the reality of what's going on.

The membership that national is looking for isn't restoring 3 million dollar warbirds or "building" a $250k turbine powered, glass paneled blahdeblah. ...how many of us spent hundreds of hours on the VP-21 thread discussing ways to build a realistic <$10k airplane? ...how many 'new guy' threads start with "looking for a good first project" ?

Take a look at all the hot topic threads on the HBA and other aviation newsgroups or what's going on at your local chapter/airport, compare that to what's coming out in Sport Aviation.
On the VP thread you mentioned, how many built one?

That's why the EAA doesn't focus on it. The EAA chapters seem to work well, the forum seems to keep people busy typing, the big EAA seems to be doing it's job rather well.

I think things are going well, if something really needs to change then change happens. I'm a firm believer in that.

#### Dillpickle

##### Well-Known Member
My local chapter is like my extended family but I have absolutely no use for national. They do a passing job of lobbying for sport aviation but as far as the "leadership" mentioned earlier, I don't see it.

They're not leading anything. They just pass down pre-packaged programs that were dreamed up by staff at national who have completely lost touch with the reality of what's going on.

The membership that national is looking for isn't restoring 3 million dollar warbirds or "building" a $250k turbine powered, glass paneled blahdeblah. ...how many of us spent hundreds of hours on the VP-21 thread discussing ways to build a realistic <$10k airplane? ...how many 'new guy' threads start with "looking for a good first project" ?

Take a look at all the hot topic threads on the HBA and other aviation newsgroups or what's going on at your local chapter/airport, compare that to what's coming out in Sport Aviation.
Fritz, you NAILED it. The LOCAL guys are salt of the earth. But corporate philosophy drove the Management of the EAA into the ground. This B.S. about what good management is worth, is just that--B.S! I spent a good portion of my life in some pretty rarefied company strata. I don't feel the need to publish it here. But if others want to drink the koolaide, they are welcome to. I think if you published a list at the gate to Oshkosh of just whose pockets your fees were lining, there would be a different outlook in the membership. The PEOPLE WHO BUILT the EAA, like Stitts, Whitman, Ison, the OLD paul poberenzy,--guys whose stuff made the rest of us want to BUILD, they were the ones that drew the membership. Not an "anointed family."

As to anyone saying no one is being taken advantage of, yes, and no. The EAA is a lot like government. "We are from the EAA and we are here to help." " More money please." And Nepotism and Corruption begins it's sad crawl. I quit giving my money nearly 20 years ago, when I realized 1) the volume of money the "owners" of club EAA were making, and 2) That your "elected" leaders had no power to depose the royalty in charge. This fact is why, despite what you pointed out about the wishes and desires of newbys, the focus remained on cash generation and plus $100,000.00 machines. #### Dillpickle ##### Well-Known Member So what. There's nothing wrong with that at all. If a stranger's net worth effects your desire to help yourself and others in a hobby then you are destined to failure. Instead of worrying about others focus on improving yourself. Be the solution. You quit because a stranger has a net worth you don't approve of. When in the history of the planet has that ever solved anything. There's "nothing wrong" with a televangelist making millions off of little old ladies either. You just keep opening your wallet for a "better" class of people who "deserve" your hard earned money. I choose not to. And your ASSUMPTION that "a stranger's net worth effects your desire to help yourself and others in a hobby" Is misplaced. I have helped a lot of people in this hobby, at a far greater cost than what the last 20 years of EAA would have cost. But when I hand a young father a few hundred dollars worth of metal and bucket of cleco's, and send them home with actual airplane PARTS and the tools to build, when I invite a builder over to use a brake or teach them to weld, or loan a tubing bender like I did yesterday, I feel like I'm paying it forward, not sticking it in my pocket. When I put my airplane up for sale, I put it up at about half of what it was worth. I wanted a mechanically inclined young FAMILY person to own it. You know, someone who couldn't AFFORD to fly, but had the burning desire to do so. Then I carried the paper. I could have had the EAA mentality, where "If you can't afford 25 thousand dollars you should find another hobby." I'm LUCKY. I know that. I don't need money at this stage in my life. I've got a shop full of toys and projects, and friends to share them. I'm sure if I met you, I'd love your company. I REALLY enjoy your passion for airplanes. I read your posts, and enjoy your perspective. But when we turn over control to another agency in an attempt to delegate responsibility, we ride a slippery slope. And justifying wages and Perqs like the EAA provides is like a So Cal life guard making 225k a year! WTF?!?!?!?! Do we need life guards? Yep. Can we buy a good one for a quarter of what we pay that one? Yep. Can the other 150k a year be better spent helping people? yep. Same for the EAA. Can the money be better spent on bringing people into the sport instead of making a man rich? HELL YES! #### Dillpickle ##### Well-Known Member Some people find it much easier to take pot shots and complain. BJC And some people actually DID their fiduciary research and realized what a freaking scam was going on. Have YOU followed the dollar? I did. But I'd bet most of the readers here haven't. Go online. Get records. Dig DEEPER than the few pages you get mailed to you. #### Dillpickle ##### Well-Known Member P-51’s are expensive, but if you want to see one fly, someone has to pay for it." Yep. Got a neighbor restoring a Corsair right now. With his own money. Three million so far. Hasn't tried to convince anyone else making 50k a year that they NEED to help pay for it to keep these beauties flying. Nor did my friend with his P51, or the other friend with his Texan....yeah, seems like MOST of the warbirds flying and displayed are owned by people who are delighted to share them with us. #### Pops ##### Well-Known Member Log Member I wonder why Paul P was trying to start a new version of the EAA in his latter years ? Did he see something that he didn't like ? #### BJC ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter I wonder why Paul P was trying to start a new version of the EAA in his latter years ? Did he see something that he didn't like ? Paul wrote a letter to me around 2002 or 2003 that might give a clue as to the answer to your question, Pops. I had written an editorial for our local EAA chapter newsletter, commenting on my disapproval of what was happening to AirVenture, the EAA, and Sport Aviation. I wrote that Tom P., the current president, had never built an airplane and seemed totally disinterested in homebuilding. Paul had handed the EAA to son Tom, but still was reading all chapter newsletters to stay in touch with the membership. Paul’s letter said, paraphrased, yes, the EAA was not the organization that he had founded, and he was trying to start another one, The Sport Aviation Association, for homebuilders and sport flyers. BJC #### Kyle Boatright ##### Well-Known Member EAA is good at putting on one heck of a fly-in, and seems to do a decent job of lobbying for and getting things like autofuel STC's and low cost glass instrument STC's approved. The magazine (though a far cry from what it once was) has its moments too. For those things alone, I'm in. Is the organization inbred from the board of directors and bylaws down? Yep. Is there a simple fix. Nope. Thing is, other than the Hightower failure, the organization has been managed reasonably well. So, I'm mostly OK with allowing the powers that be to run things until they screw it up. #### Vigilant1 ##### Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter I don't know why there's a need to throw rocks at the EAA. They certainly aren't >impeding< any of us from doing what we want to in this hobby, and EAA HQs isn't >impeding< local EAA chapters from being as hands-on and active as they want to be. I don't have any problem with EAA selling$10K luxury packages for those who want a plush experience at Oshkosh, er "Airventure." I hope they sell a TON of those packages--buying legislative influence isn't cheap, and I want them to be in a good position to affect wacky new laws or FAA ideas down the line. I'm not looking to be "led" by the EAA. I'd like them to try to improve the conditions that will allow homebuilding to thrive, and I'd like them to attempt to bring folks into this hobby (and that's why I think restricting access to the how-to videos is a bad idea).

I don't see this as a zero sum game. Having luxury Airventure packages or a magazine for warbird lovers doesn't restrict the number of folks who can fly their Tailwinds to Oshkosh and camp under the wing. Expelling all the fast-glass kit vendors will not bring us back to the days of tens of thousands of people building T-18s in their garages. I think people imagine that "purifying" EAA would result in all the present resources they have being used to encourage homebuilding--which just is not going to happen. Those resources need to come from somewhere, and \$20 annual dues from a small number of scratch builders just will not result in much of an organization. Paul P, Ed Fisher, and other volunteers --not a dearth of talent or experience there--worked to get the SAA up and running without a lot of success. So, we've seen that. The resource flow now at EAA is >from< the warbirds/megabuck airplane crowd >to< homebuilding and >to< lobbying, which is just fine with me.

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#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
And some people actually DID their fiduciary research and realized what a freaking scam was going on. Have YOU followed the dollar? I did. But I'd bet most of the readers here haven't. Go online. Get records. Dig DEEPER than the few pages you get mailed to you.
It's an illusion to say you followed the dollar. That literally makes no sense, like something we'd hear on a playground.

Tom is 72 years old, many and I mean many people can be worth 3 million at age 72. And really it's irrelevant, I hope he makes another 3 million. I hope you do too. I hope everyone does.

This hating on money crap anymore is killing society. Pick up a shovel and start digging.

#### narfi

##### Well-Known Member
Good leadership is expensive, too.
Bad leadership is expensive too. Perhaps more.

Fiscal responsibility* is no longer a part of our culture. Look at our current school system, look at every single government program.

I am a member for two reasons.
1. The magazine and comic book, so my son can have something physical to read and dream about.
2. The solidworks license I still dream/hope to teach myself how to use.

*Fiscal Responsibility (also and perhaps more frequently "Fiscally Irresponsible") is my favorite phrase for the year and response to nearly every topic discussed during hangar coffee breaks.

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