Dreamer or scam...

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Dana, May 3, 2012.

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  1. May 3, 2012 #1

    Dana

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  2. May 3, 2012 #2

    Topaz

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    Dunno, but taking $9,900 deposits for an airplane that hasn't seem to have ever flown seems like a road we've seen traveled a few times before, usually with really bad consequences.

    So this thing is mostly electric, with a smaller "sustainer" gas motor for lower-speed, long-range operations?
     
  3. May 3, 2012 #3

    SVSUSteve

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    Sounds like a load of BS to me. Is a dead prince with a Nigerian bank account involved somewhere in this deal?
     
  4. May 3, 2012 #4

    fly2kads

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    When you ask for money for a product that is completely unproven, and promote it with breathless statements and slick marketing, my B.S. meter goes haywire. I have no idea if these guys are legit or not, but I'm keeping my wallet tucked away, thanks. (I suspect they'd laugh at my empty, worn out wallet anyway, but still....)
     
  5. May 3, 2012 #5

    highspeed

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    It looks like a Velocity without the usual winglets. They seem to be rather vague on the details of their hybrid drive system. Battery technology has come a long way in the past few years, but it still has a long way to go approach something with a usable power density. Time will tell.
     
  6. May 3, 2012 #6

    Vigilant1

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    "Dreamer" vs "scammer" requires knowledge of the person's intent, which is a tough call. But the specs on this thing are not realistic and the pitch is clearly over the top. For instance "Near zero emissions"--really? How do those batteries get charged? What powers that thing on those 1000NM trips?
     
  7. May 3, 2012 #7

    Hot Wings

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    "Dreamer" vs "scammer" requires knowledge of the person's intent, which is a tough call.

    Very true, but the outcome for those putting money down is probably going to be the same.
     
  8. May 3, 2012 #8

    orion

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    Despite millions sunk into similar scams, the overt pitch for some reason seems to work, with or without a flying example. Sort of sad that folks don't do more due diligence. But yea, the site is long on words and very short on technical or proof of a functional company.
     
  9. May 3, 2012 #9

    pwood66889

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    Quoting their web page:
    "Volta Volaré is headquartered in beautiful Portland, Oregon, the heart of the Silicon Forest."
    Not to "sound like a broken record," but surely some one is sufficiently close to Puddle City to check this outfit out.
    Percy (who is too far away) in SE Bama, USA
     
  10. May 3, 2012 #10

    SVSUSteve

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    If they do I'm sure that they will find the associate of a dead Nigerian prince who needs some money up front to get into a bank account. He'll be happy to split the proceeds with you and give you a shiny new airplane for your troubles.
     
  11. May 3, 2012 #11

    topspeed100

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    I have put a lot of effort to make a philosphy behind an ac to fly without fossile fuel...and no this road never came to me...I mean yes backed up with a gas engine..but hey gas engine is nothing new ?

    Inside The First Production-Ready Electric Airplane | Popular Science

    There is a saying in finnish ; "Joku rääpy pitää olla kerjätessäkin !" it traslates..; You should practise some decency even if you were begging !

    What we have so far...really fast electric AC:s that fly 15-30 min at full throttle ( most Cri Cri variats ) and on the other end 1-2 hours with gentle setting on a glider like lay out ( G4 Pipistrel ).

    Then we have few solar powered AC:s that go from sunrise to sunset ( Sun Seeker II ).
     
  12. May 3, 2012 #12

    SVSUSteve

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    You would also be well served to remember that just because Popular Science reports on it, it does not mean it's actually going to work since they more or less take the word of the inventor. This is the same magazine that I seem to recall publicly stated the Jarvik-7 artificial heart would be an answer to the crisis of donor organ shortages.

    Pardon me for acting like a scientist and not taking someone's word for it even if they have convinced a reporter or two.
     
  13. May 3, 2012 #13

    SVSUSteve

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    And those have what practical uses exactly? That's the problem. The advocates go "They are already flying!" but what is flying isn't anything economically viable or even important. It's an one-off novelty.


    As for this miracle plane out of Portland, I'll point out that the Chevy Volt's engine and motor system have not exactly won it a lot of fans outside of the true believers and the environmental nuts.
     
  14. May 3, 2012 #14

    topspeed100

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    Absolutely none whatsover.
     
  15. May 3, 2012 #15

    autoreply

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    Well, a hybrid solution is a no-brainer to add to an already electric aircraft.

    But yeah, the old "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" is valid here. Some quick math shows that for cruise she needs around 1.5 tonne of batteries for every hour of cruise. Add in the 1000 mile range and some margin for climb/delay and we're looking at about 15,000 lbs of batteries.

    Even the claim of 50+ mpg is downright hilarious at 300 mph. That's 80-90 hp at the prop. Hell, the world record for such power is 200 mph.


    This is just lala-land from the "designers". Grotesque BS. Since they're already taking money, beware, even if it's not their intention to do any harm, you will loose all money and be disappointed.



    FlyNano anyone?
    LH10 Ellipse anyone?
    "Jarno's" flapping wings anyone?
     
  16. May 3, 2012 #16

    topspeed100

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    What is this supposed to mean..LH10 flyes..others don't..FlyNano might.
     
  17. May 3, 2012 #17

    autoreply

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    All 3 had ridiculous claims about performance and price and all 3 failed (or are failing) miserably, as will any such a company. Proper engineering and staying in touch with reality is mandatory to run a viable business...
     
  18. May 3, 2012 #18

    topspeed100

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    I agree 100%..I tought LH10 reached the target ?
     
  19. May 3, 2012 #19

    bmcj

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    Well, the "sustainer" motor for recharging is no small beast in itself... 180 HP. That's enough to push a Velocity aircraft along at a good pace all by itself, so where's the savings there? But surely not at 300mph; I missed that on the website... is that really what they said?
     
  20. May 3, 2012 #20

    Topaz

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    You'll note that, buried down in the specs, they say that the 1000nm cruise using the "sustainier" is performed at 55% power, which I means "55% of total takeoff power". Which basically means you're using the electric for takeoff and climb, and then the electric motor runs on power from the gas sustainer/generator, which only allows the electric to run at 180hp, less transmission and efficiency losses. So let's say, 150hp to the prop at a wild guess. Which is going to result in a very "leisurely" cruise speed in an aircraft this size. You'll note that they only give cruise speeds under the "full" power output of the electric, and don't give cruise speeds at the "long-range" 55% power level.

    This airplane, in concept, is nothing more than a hybrid of the type we've discussed here before - launching under electric+gas power, and then cruising under power of the gas sustainer, which is too small for a strong climb. As such, I suppose there's nothing "wrong" with that, but it seems to me a bad fit for this particular type of aircraft, where high cruise speed is more or less its reason to exist. For a "$100 Breakfast Special", sure, where you don't really have a care as to how fast you get there. But this application? With today's tech? No, I don't see it.

    So while I don't think the propulsion system is anything outlandish, I do think this is a poor application for it right now. And the fact that they're taking large deposits without having an actual product is beyond scary. My wallet stays far away from this one, even if I were looking for this sort of airplane.
     
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