# Dream workshop?

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#### Pilot-34

##### Well-Known Member
Nice then about concrete or brick is a fine spray of water will cool them nicely.
Earth tubes and a fan will also cool/ heat inexpensively.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
White paint make a big difference to building temperatures. Whitewash is even better, but not very durable.

#### Pilot-34

##### Well-Known Member
In the Midwest white wash applied over the shingles of the building works out just fine it usually survives most of the summer and as soon as the cool dampness at the end of fall sets in it washes away.

#### robertl

##### Well-Known Member
The only benches fixed in my shop are cantilevered. Only one short wall out of 1500 sq ft. The rest is shelves above 6' and castered multipurpose work stations with storage underneath and lots of flip out and lock things like vises and such. All tables were made with landing gear with a big lever to drop on the floor to be stable. All exactly the same height so that they can be combined into large rigging tables. Stuff on casters stows under the fixed cantilevered benches. I have a huge welding rigging table that has an MDF cover so it is a table but remove the cover and it is a metal slot table and the whole thing can be tilted on the long axis so you can always sit on a stool and get whatever it is in position with minimal hassle.
Ok Jay, I want to see some pictures of your set up !

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
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I could see making it a little larger, perhaps 20' x 16', or simply adding a shed-roofed extension on one end to allow for longer components. Obviously, I am not looking for a shop big enough to assemble an entire aircraft, just to build individual components (wings, tail, fuselage) for assembly outside or at a hangar.

I like working with studs and ply ; but there is a faster way to
build a work-shop ; here is a 20 X 20 X 12' example :

Bille

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I like working with studs and ply ; but there is a faster way to
build a work-shop ; here is a 20 X 20 X 12' example :

Bille
I don’t know that particular brand, but there are some very well done steel buildings. Having spent a little time in one (in Louisiana) in the summertime, I can tell you that they are extremely hot and noisy. One solution is frame, insulate, wire and sheathe the interior.

BJC

#### BrianW

##### Well-Known Member
+1 on the straw bale option, which is can basically be covered with adobe or cement and provides amazing insulating properties against heat or cold. It is very labor intensive, however.

On the concrete dome, I wonder if anyone is using these forms and system commercially? Source: Monolithic Dome Airplane Hangars and the Invention of the Hangar Door

Hmmm....Anyone who claims resistance to 300 mph wind loads and impact resistance to rocket/grenades is saying this: "Come look at my greatly over-engineered structure" ... I don't think so. Something more like a Stimson Bow - made in two halves. Each sidewall made by inflating a rectangular plastic skin secured by low sidewalls, while a concrete impregnated fabric skin is rolled over the diafram until set, then erected on one side to form a peak. Repeat for the other bow.

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Well, I supposed that depends where you live. Right now I am in the hurricane-prone Florida Panhandle about 500 yards from the water, so a monolithic dome sounds pretty good in terms of ensuring the building will be here when I get back. My suggestion was in response to PTAirco's comment, "If I was 30 years younger I'd build a ferro-cement arch building."

The demonstrated resistance of a well-built Stimson bow shed to high winds and snow loads suggests to me that it would work well for many people, even for a hangar if you're plane has folding wings or is short enough (18' or so) to fit through the door sidesway. Silver-coated polytarp fabric over the top and perhaps foam insulating panels and white cloth on the inside would make for a very nice space. Keep an eye on the tarps and change them every few years.

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Hmmm....Anyone who claims resistance to 300 mph wind loads and impact resistance to rocket/grenades is saying this: "Come look at my greatly over-engineered structure"
Someone once observed that mechanical engineers design weapons, while civil engineers design targets.

#### PTAirco

##### Well-Known Member
I don’t know that particular brand, but there are some very well done steel buildings. Having spent a little time in one (in Louisiana) in the summertime, I can tell you that they are extremely hot and noisy. One solution is frame, insulate, wire and sheathe the interior.

BJC
Which almost as much effort as building from scratch and adds hugely to the cost. AS convenient as they look, they really only work in moderate climates.

BJC

#### PTAirco

##### Well-Known Member
2 Mother Earth News type options that might work for you:
Foamed cement blocks
Straw
Foamed cement blocks are the bee's knees. More than half the buildings in Germany seem to be built that way. Simple, efficient and dirt simple, none of this six layered nonsense with siding and house wrap etc. Won't rot, won't blow over, won't burn. Lots of insulation and thermal mass built in. In the US however you can only get the blocks through importers. Which makes them expensive. Apparently a $35 million factory in Florida closed down because they could not get US carpenters and builders to adopt it. Makes sense because if houses lasted more than a few years and didn't regularly blow away in winds and burn to the ground, they would lose business. And they have huge lobbying power. I call them the 2x4 mafia. Seems every innovative form of construction gets frowned upon by people in charge of permits. Who, I firmly believe, get lots of kickbacks from the established industries. #### mcrae0104 ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Log Member ...people in charge of permits. Who, I firmly believe, get lots of kickbacks from the established industries. If you have some evidence of that, I would be very infterested to read it. #### PTAirco ##### Well-Known Member If you have some evidence of that, I would be very infterested to read it. I have no evidence, just my own conspiracy theory formed from 30 years of reading about other people's experiences with alternative construction methods. Why would an industry persist in practices that are manifestly stupid (every year people build stick houses in areas prone to fires and tornados and hurricanes - that is stupid by any standard) and why would the majority of building codes be written in a way that are manifestly biased towards that type of construction? My girlfriend is also an expert in land use planning. Did you know, for example that many companies will send "permit babes" to pull permits? I'm serious - and you can imagine what a permit-babe is... No, this isn't thread drift; we're talking about building workshops and permits are part of that. #### Topaz ##### Super Moderator Staff member Log Member Not on your life. 200 sf & you will take out 15 -20% for non-configurable built ins? ... Do yourself a favor and build a light, rigid, push- or roll- around bench and use and adapt it a bit before deciding to fix a long one to a wall. Build perimeter shelves above head height for the "stuff" you would normally pile on or under a bench "until". ... Best small-shop advice I've seen in years. Thank you! #### pictsidhe ##### Well-Known Member Aerated cement blocks are awesome. I fail to understand why they are impossible to find here. The house I built from them 28 years ago is still doing great. Stable temps, quiet. I've built a few outbuildings too. They have far smaller temperature swings than regular ones. I looked at strawbale for the smokies. Just a bit too damp to try it without treating them with borax/boric acid. Which adds a huge amount of hassle. They aren't particularly high labour if you spray the stucco. #### ScaleBirdsScott ##### Well-Known Member I've been setting up a new workshop the last few weeks. Working on the bathroom this week and getting some practice with the new toys. Looking to figure out what to do for tables and extra storage. Hoping to put a mezzanine up in the spring. The paint discussion has been interesting to me, as we have an unfinished firewall that needs something on it. I might try the aforementioned ridiculously white paint. I also am tempted to hang extra LED shop lights from the ceiling lower than the overhead fluorescents over specific work areas. The area seems a bit dark to me. It doesn't have a plane in it just yet. Next week I think? Good space to work on a fuselage or wings. #### patrickrio ##### Well-Known Member Do indirect lighting at about 80 lumens/sq ft. but make it dimmable so you can take the edge off if its late. If you have light rated at about 95 CRI, 4000-4300 Kelvin and 50 plus lumens/sq ft, it wakes you up like half a coffee and will make it harder to sleep at night so dimmers matter. for task lights, I like LED projector lens lights on goosenecks with clamps so you can put them wherever you need them. Make sure those are high CRI too if you can find them. High CRI light makes working easier and makes you happier too. I Highly recommend spotlight bulbs from SORAA if you need to re bulb some legacy spotlight fixtures. They are expensive bulbs, but worth the price because the light quality is so good. #### mcrae0104 ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Log Member I have no evidence, just my own conspiracy theory... Got it. Thanks. ...why would the majority of building codes be written in a way that are manifestly biased towards that type of construction? They're not. The International Building Code, adopted in nearly every jurisdiction in the U.S., allows for local authorities having jurisdiction to approve alternative means and methods. (Each jurisdiction incorporating the IBC--or any other code--may, and generally does, also enact its own amendments to the code enacted.) Generally, the codes address the most common means of construction--and the IBC is far from limited to adressing "stick" construction. That is not because there is any prejudice toward uncommon methods; it would simply be impractical to chase every novel method that could be conceived. With every revision of the IBC, new methods are incorporated as they become more commonplace (e.g. mass timber construction, which is coming into its own recently). Much like the FARs, the building codes are "written in blood" and if they address conventional methods most often, it is simply because that is the sample set of mistakes and catastrophes that the International Code Council (author of the ICC) has available to address. Again, if you have evidence of a jurisdiction rejecting a reasonable alternative method of construction, please post it. I would be very interested in reading about it. #### robertl ##### Well-Known Member Foamed cement blocks are the bee's knees. More than half the buildings in Germany seem to be built that way. Simple, efficient and dirt simple, none of this six layered nonsense with siding and house wrap etc. Won't rot, won't blow over, won't burn. Lots of insulation and thermal mass built in. In the US however you can only get the blocks through importers. Which makes them expensive. Apparently a$35 million factory in Florida closed down because they could not get US carpenters and builders to adopt it. Makes sense because if houses lasted more than a few years and didn't regularly blow away in winds and burn to the ground, they would lose business. And they have huge lobbying power. I call them the 2x4 mafia. Seems every innovative form of construction gets frowned upon by people in charge of permits. Who, I firmly believe, get lots of kickbacks from the established industries.
On a similar note, years ago I wanted to build an underground house, couldn't get a loan or insurance, because it's different. Same thing when I wanted to build a Hexadome, too unconventional, even though it's stronger, will support more load and resist wind better and has 1/3 less exterior space exposed to the elements, which equals less heat and cooling loss.
Bob

#### Speedboat100

##### Well-Known Member
On a similar note, years ago I wanted to build an underground house, couldn't get a loan or insurance, because it's different. Same thing when I wanted to build a Hexadome, too unconventional, even though it's stronger, will support more load and resist wind better and has 1/3 less exterior space exposed to the elements, which equals less heat and cooling loss.
Bob
On a similar note, years ago I wanted to build an underground house, couldn't get a loan or insurance, because it's different. Same thing when I wanted to build a Hexadome, too unconventional, even though it's stronger, will support more load and resist wind better and has 1/3 less exterior space exposed to the elements, which equals less heat and cooling loss.
Bob

That is a shame. I think what USA needs is a house that resists 100 mph winds easily.

Here is my work space.