# Dream workshop?

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#### Jay Kempf

##### Curmudgeon in Training (CIT)
Exactly.

We have a Cayenne GTS. Flex pipes always go. Factory cats are stupid expensive. Guy in Canada I have been buying from for years makes beautiful aftermarket cats, much better performance and longevity than Porsche OEM ( I know blaspheme) but to do the job you need a thing called a BoltBuster (inductive nut heater). Expensive until you realize you ain't doing the job without it. So segue right to priceless.

Lighting is funny. Sometimes the cheapest little garbage $5 LED light on the counter in a bucket at the hardware store is the most useful. The$200 one from the right tool supplier looks good but just doesn't work right. But I am collecting lighting fairly fast.

And used all the LED stuff on my back under the panel of the Bonanza recently. Priceless $10 LED stuff. #### patrickrio ##### Well-Known Member I used hi CRI LED light strips to replace florescent lighting in the NYC head office and it worked really well. This Chinese company is where I bought from: colordiode.com, but their website seems to be down. You can try emailing ivy@colordiode.com or texting her at 86 15889722078. I think they have an aliexpress store too... Hopefully they are still in business because I really was impressed with their ultra high lumen light strips that they listed as high CRI. The specifications I used were 14000 lumens per 5 meter roll of 4000 Kelvin 24 volt strips 95 CRI, not waterproof. I got them for$49 per roll but I ordered 50 rolls... so not sure the price you can get them for but maybe the price came down too. I mounted the strips on the cheapest 1 inch wide aluminum bar extrusion I could find as a heatsink and hung the aluminum about 1.5 feet from ceiling with the LEDs aimed at the ceiling. So no bright LEDs shining directly in your eyes...

I used Meanwell 0-10 dimming transformers attached to Lutron wireless lighting control boxes so that I did not need to hardwire light switches or motion sensors, and you can easily create a custom remote control you can carry around the room that lets you dim lighting zones as you wish. I recommend painting the aluminum strips with contact cement before attaching the self stick strips so that they really stick well. Aim the strips mounted upwards and paint the ceiling bright, flat white. evenly space strips to get 80 lumens per square foot. You only need 50 lumens per foot, but you want to put extra lumens because the LEDs will dim over time so you need some head room.

BJC

#### don january

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I have a 12 ft. x 27 ft cement pad in my back yard so when my plane comes out of the basement I plan on taking a used grain bin that can be found for free in my area and splitting it down the middle and build something like this with power ran to it. I found a 5 gallon bucket and large funnel works fine for toilet for me. and good thing my wings will be removable or fold up

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
I have a 12 ft. x 27 ft cement pad in my back yard so when my plane comes out of the basement I plan on taking a used grain bin that can be found for free in my area and splitting it down the middle and build something like this with power ran to it. I found a 5 gallon bucket and large funnel works fine for toilet for me.View attachment 102978 and good thing my wings will be removable or fold up
That looks a bit small.
Research 'compost toilet'. Even my squeamish wife was amazed at how scentless and effective they are. Just don't breathe a word to any official.

#### patrickrio

##### Well-Known Member
Meanwell HLG series tranformers
Lutron Pico wireless control dimmer switches
Lutron PowPak 0-10V control dimming module
Lutron Radio Powr Savr wireless wall mount occupancy and vacancy sensors.

#### don january

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
picsidhe: What you never seen how small a Taylor-monoplane is ? The wife has two bathrooms of her own and if I be a good boy she will share for the sit down part of the job.

#### Aviacs

##### Well-Known Member
I did not read all 6 pages.

Some built in workbenches and storage along one wall would be nice
200 sf & you will take out 15 -20% for non-configurable built ins?
Some idiot (major donor at the time) did this at our hangar and it is just dead storage space that if built into reconfigurable roll-arounds (or even shove arounds) could have fit another project in.

My livelihood woodworking shop has no built in workbenches and only a one narrow vertical fixed stack.
All shelving is above head height. This gives max floor area.

A big factor is that for much work, besides the space-sapping factor, wall benches prevent practical work all around a project. And they are often too high. Do yourself a favor and build a light, rigid, push- or roll- around bench and use and adapt it a bit before deciding to fix a long one to a wall. Build perimeter shelves above head height for the "stuff" you would normally pile on or under a bench "until". If you can afford it, use heavy duty adjustable standards from the big box for the shelf brackets, so when needed there can be multiple shelves, shelves of different depths, and in a pinch, removable shelves. Use 3/4" plywood for most shelves, or if long spans, 2 x 12's.

For storage, buy surplus shallow depth drawer full stack industrial file cabinets, and put them on (screwed to) wheel dollies from the cheap import tool store.

On some days the workbench(s) can be shoved out the garage door. Even left out with a tarp over.
Don't reduce the minimal floor space with fixed, non-configurable furniture.

If you put wheels under benches or equipment, don't chintz on size or quality. Solid, rugged, cast metal wheels, or cast metal wheels with poly tires.

smt

#### n45bm

##### Well-Known Member
Painting the walls ceiling and floor white has been the best advance and lighting that I have found
Now THAT idea, I like. White reflects much better. Excellent idea that I might just have to incorporate in my hangar. Thanks!

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Don't reduce the minimal floor space with fixed, non-configurable furniture.

If you put wheels under benches or equipment, don't chintz on size or quality. Solid, rugged, cast metal wheels, or cast metal wheels with poly tires.

One step further on the wheels/casters. Add some over-center mechanisms, at least on one end. You can always use a hand truck, or even a mechanics creeper, under the other end to move when the need arises. Another option is to lift the whole bench of the wheels using all-thread legs.

From a ShopSmith:
there are other similar assemblies available. This was just the first I could find.

My only need for a fixed item is and sturdy vise. I'm considering some kind of cam latching mechanism to secure it to concrete expansion bolts. My roll around vise (4 inch pipe welded to truck wheel filled with concrete and old flywheels) just isn't stable enough for spirited hammering.

#### Jay Kempf

##### Curmudgeon in Training (CIT)
The only benches fixed in my shop are cantilevered. Only one short wall out of 1500 sq ft. The rest is shelves above 6' and castered multipurpose work stations with storage underneath and lots of flip out and lock things like vises and such. All tables were made with landing gear with a big lever to drop on the floor to be stable. All exactly the same height so that they can be combined into large rigging tables. Stuff on casters stows under the fixed cantilevered benches. I have a huge welding rigging table that has an MDF cover so it is a table but remove the cover and it is a metal slot table and the whole thing can be tilted on the long axis so you can always sit on a stool and get whatever it is in position with minimal hassle.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
200 sf & you will take out 15 -20% for non-configurable built ins?
Tried to give your post two likes.

BJC

#### patrickrio

##### Well-Known Member
Oh, for white ceiling paint, not all whites are equal. We tested white paints from multiple sources and the whitest white paint we found is Home Depot Behr ultra white flat paint. It is so white that it makes some other companies whitest paint look grey when painted side by side. You can use the Behr high gloss acrylic latex in areas that are likely to be grazed or touched so that it is the most durable possible.

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter

Depending on the climate and insulated or shaded as necessary, I’d be happy with just a 20’ ISO shipping container to start. 12’ x 27’ is more than *two* 20’ containers!

That looks a bit small.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member

Depending on the climate and insulated or shaded as necessary, I’d be happy with just a 20’ ISO shipping container to start. 12’ x 27’ is more than *two* 20’ containers!
Did you not notice the 3 pop rivets holding the door rail on?
Yes, my future shop is far, far bigger.
It's my basement. 450sqft. It is a long way from perfect, but I can use it. Largest clear area will be 25' × 11'. Big enough to build the major parts. About 300' of crawl space opens onto it. I can make most of that 6' high. That will be storage. The low bit opens onto the large clear area. It's just big enough to put the big oven I will need to form panels. Awesome, I have a fair bit of storage and my oven in and still haven't used any 'real' floor space yet.
I'm going to need a huge table to build the major parts. That will be 3 8×4 benches. I want adjustable feet on those and will lock them together.

On the adjusatble feet: get some 1 1/2 sch40 steel pipe and thread it. Two nuts attached the legs and plates on the end give me solid height adjustment. My floor is solid, smoothish but not very flat... I have access to an electric pipe threader at work. Moving benches will be a PITA, but won't be needed often. 2 large HF furniture dollies and a little lumber to make over centre wheeled dollies for them may get made. Will also have some smaller wheeled benches and VBs tool trolley.

#### PTAirco

##### Well-Known Member
If I get to build anything hangar/workshop like, it will likely be in the desert. Which has its own set of problems. Even here at Flabob CA, temperatures in my hangar during the summer hit 110+, day after day. Zero insulation, of course, rented hangar. I have been looking at commercial steel building kits etc and while Quonset type building are structurally an elegant solution, they are not easy or cheap to insulated due the corrugated surface. I thought about adding an exterior (corrugated metal panels) and interior skin (hardbord) and using blown in insulation, which would be awesome,but the added surface area doubles the cost. If I was 30 years younger I'd build a ferro-cement arch building. Lots of thermal mass and very cheap. I'm too old for the labor involved. I have kicked around every idea there was in an effort to bring down cost but I'm still undecided. Insulation will be a high priority. Currently I have the option of building a smaller shop in the backyard and a separate hangar on the nearby airport, which may prove more practical. Lots there start around \$8000 but no utilities, so it would be mostly airplane storage and assembly there. I'd be ok even with a gravel floor for that but the shop has to be civilised and comfortable.

Someone mentioned shipping containers: I had one in Henderson Nevada for a while. It almost destroyed a set of Aeronca wings. I got them out just in time. The low humidity and insane temperatures in there were hard on the wood spars. I'm guessing it must have hit 150degrees + in there.

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
If I was 30 years younger I'd build a ferro-cement arch building. Lots of thermal mass and very cheap.
2 Mother Earth News type options that might work for you:
Foamed cement blocks
Straw

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
+1 on the straw bale option, which is can basically be covered with adobe or cement and provides amazing insulating properties against heat or cold. It is very labor intensive, however.

On the concrete dome, I wonder if anyone is using these forms and system commercially? Source: Monolithic Dome Airplane Hangars and the Invention of the Hangar Door

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I've always admired Pier Luigi Nervi's long-span hangar structures. They could easily be adapted to a smaller-scale wood system for construction by ordinary folks (similar to the pavilion in the last two images). If you can build a wood wing, you could build a hangar using this style of construction.

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Those are beautiful, but a Stimson bow roof shed can go up to 20' wide with standard dimension lumber and as long as you want. Worth a look, perhaps clad in corrugated roofing.