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Double Eagle or other alternative cheap and easy builds

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FishHawk

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Jan 20, 2021
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35
I recently registered on this forum and I asked some questions in the member introductions, but I am opening a new thread with better formulated questions now.
Based on my previous projects(a buggy build and teardrop camper), I have the most experience with welding tube frames, and I've got top notch welding equipment. I wouldn't like to build a subpar wooden frame. All metal seems like a big investment, and sheet metal is not a material that I am too familiar with. I do have access to metal cutting lasers, but I just don't feel up to it. Idk, change my mind if I am wrong.
I've decided on something lighter and easier. I don't want to get stuck for 10 years with a Zenith CH750 build and never fly that thing.
Double Eagle has a a big community, and it can take me plus my girlfriend, because otherwise she might kill me.
Can you suggest some similar projects, maybe some that can take more weight in the engine compartment so I can put a heavier but more powerful engine, some that are closed like the Hawk Arrow II?? Nothing is a strict requirement except 2 seats. Are there any ultralights that are better than the DoubleEagle in that department? I need them to be beginner friendly in build and in flight.
We are talking about a scratch build, not kit. Some of you said that I should contact someone who has built an airplane from scratch around here, but I've searched and I asked at the biggest aero clubs, and there is a total of zero I've found.
 
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BJC

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12,514
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
Nothing is a strict requirement except 2 seats. Are there any ultralights that are better than the DoubleEagle in that department?
Ultralights are limited to one seat.

The first thing to define is the type of flying you want to do.


BJC
 

FishHawk

Active Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
Ultralights are limited to one seat.

The first thing to define is the type of flying you want to do.


BJC
I'm sorry, a mix up in languages. In my country ultralights are defined as all light sport airplanes. I need a sport pilot licence even if it's a one seat aircraft.
Just general learning with maximum distances of 100km in radius from the place. Those are the places I can go without crossing the border.
 

FishHawk

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Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
Again, just for clarification, I don't need big distances, just general flying and enjoying. Maybe skipping to the next town at max, but that max isn't a whole lot, around 100 km.
 

karmarepair

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Jan 13, 2011
Messages
320
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United States
Christavia MK1 comes to mind. Any of the Bearhawks. But the Double Eagle or Cabin Eagle would be a whole lot quicker to build, which is NOT to say "instant", and they WILL NOT take heavier engines. Wag-Aero Sport Trainer or Wag-a-Bond. Or, for not much more trouble - a Wittman Tailwind or Butterfly.
 

FishHawk

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Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
Christavia MK1 comes to mind. Any of the Bearhawks. But the Double Eagle or Cabin Eagle would be a whole lot quicker to build, which is NOT to say "instant", and they WILL NOT take heavier engines. Wag-Aero Sport Trainer or Wag-a-Bond. Or, for not much more trouble - a Wittman Tailwind or Butterfly.
Is a specific steel alloy needed or any steel will do, because I am screwed if specific alloys are required. I'm having trouble with finding even regular tool steel like 1095 for my knifemaking here, and I end up paying a lot more money and ordering steel from other countries.
Also, spruce is impossible to get so I'll need a substitute if there are wooden ribs in the design.
 

TFF

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Apr 28, 2010
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14,177
Location
Memphis, TN
Your country might dictate what you are allowed to build. Where are you talking about building and flying it? Materials are important. What do local homebuilt builders usually build as planes?
 

nickec

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Apr 22, 2010
Messages
223
Location
Los Angeles, CA; Houston, TX
Is a specific steel alloy needed or any steel will do, because I am screwed if specific alloys are required. I'm having trouble with finding even regular tool steel like 1095 for my knifemaking here, and I end up paying a lot more money and ordering steel from other countries.
Also, spruce is impossible to get so I'll need a substitute if there are wooden ribs in the design.
R.S. "Veeduber" Hoover, may he rest in peace, addressed the challenges you face in his blog and elsewhere on the net. Spruce is not the only wood you can safely use. Various alloys can serve. It is not written in stone that 4130 be used.

Ideally, you make simple samples and test them. No need to build the entire aircraft to test the wisdom of using a particular material. Once you test something, if your test method is valid, then you know. Everything else is just opinions - even if some opinions are based on extensive experience. Even this post is merely opinion.




 

Rockiedog2

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Dec 11, 2012
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I always heard from the old timers that early Piper fuselages were built from mild steel plate and tubing. Don’t know if the tubing was seamless or not but do wonder
 

FishHawk

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Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
One of the benefits of completing the “about me” in your profile is that, among other things, we can see where you are from, and better understand you.
The Piper Super Cub owners manual lists the tube alloys.
Your country might dictate what you are allowed to build. Where are you talking about building and flying it? Materials are important. What do local homebuilt builders usually build as planes?
There are no local builders. I would be hailed by the media as if I was the first person to build an amateur rocket that went to the moon if I build this airplane. There was one faculty professor who built an airplane. I don't think he is available except for email.
My options and constraints due to being in a "second world" country are these.
There is no way I can get specific steel alloy tubes, although I'll be able to get seamless tubes I think.
I thought I couldn't get spruce, but I translated spruce wrong. Logs are sold at a price of 150 dollars per cubic meter.
I will test the steel I get so I can be sure about the tensile strength against pieces of the steel alloys that are shown here. I'll order the samples from ebay.
The only thing I can't be sure about is whether I'm allowed to put an auto conversion engine, but if I have to, I'll just buy a used aviation engine. Materials and lack of local help are my problems, but you guys are a knowledgeable bunch, and I might even go to a neighboring country to see what the builders there are building. Upside is that everything is cheap here.
 

FishHawk

Active Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
One of the benefits of completing the “about me” in your profile is that, among other things, we can see where you are from, and better understand you.


BJC
Your country might dictate what you are allowed to build. Where are you talking about building and flying it? Materials are important. What do local homebuilt builders usually build as planes?
We have the most idiotic laws possible.
I've been reading the laws regarding amateur built aircraft, and the only thing I've found is this:
Building and modifying an aircraft will be done according to the international technical standards. The builder has to notify the agency before starting the build.
What is this and what are those international standards? This seems like a long fight to get documents.
 

Vigilant1

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Jan 24, 2011
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US
We have the most idiotic laws possible.
I've been reading the laws regarding amateur built aircraft, and the only thing I've found is this:
Building and modifying an aircraft will be done according to the international technical standards. The builder has to notify the agency before starting the build.
What is this and what are those international standards.
Ohhhhh. This might be just as difficult as building the plane.
In cases where the rules (whatever they are) aren't strictly enforced, some people just ignore them. This can work for years, but it puts you at ongoing and persistent dread of being discovered.
If you have to engage an entrenched bureaucracy, I doubt I can tell you anything you don't already know. Two rules that have served me well:
1) Don't make it personal and never question the competence of the functionaries or the importance of their rules. Many of these folks are highly dependent on their jobs for a sense of self worth, and if any of this is challenged they will find many ways to stop your project from being approved.
2) Set things up so that it is easier for them to do as you'd like than it is for them to do otherwise. This can be difficult. In some cases I've even written letters for their signature to the higher-ups, complete with all regulatory citations. Don't threaten them (see Rule 1), but they should know that you'll be a continual irritant in their lives until your project is approved. Eventually, the easiest way to be rid of you is approve your project.

Good luck.
 
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wsimpso1

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Oct 18, 2003
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Saline Michigan
Look at the Buttercup. It will do fine on an O-200, Subie EA-81, Corvair, or Rotax 912. Want some build fun in that class? Look at RockieDog2's videos and his thread on the Zenith...

Billski
 

FishHawk

Active Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
35
Look at the Buttercup. It will do fine on an O-200, Subie EA-81, Corvair, or Rotax 912. Want some build fun in that class? Look at RockieDog2's videos and his thread on the Zenith...

Billski
Isn't the Corvair a heavy engine? I'd rather put a PSA 1.6 hdi, it'll weigh the same, be more reliable and more economical.
 

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