# "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glider ### Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com: Status Not open for further replies. #### BJC ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

As far as a heavier engine moving the CG... I'll see. My unedumacated guess: Plane would nose down more in glide, requiring a constant draggy backwards on stick to maintain level flight. Engine on full, probably less noticeable? As a bigger engine is really going to be pulling the little plane behind it, with more air over tail needing less input then to correct. I can tweak and move the gas tank and pilot seat further backwards to adjust. The pilot being the heaviest weight, a little movement backwards of the pilot seat should really help move the CG back to where it needs to be, somewhere under the cruise speed center of lift imho.
chopper

There is a good introduction to CG and stability issues here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_static_stability

BJC

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
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Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Interesting thing about new blood in these chapters. We once sat on$3,000 that was gifted to us.....for 3 years!!!!!

A young man died of cancer and his parents gave that to our chapter to give to a youngster to learn to fly at our discretion. We couldn't find anyone!!!

I know this, if a young kids approached me and wanted to fly. .....correctly.....with instruction.....I'd financially help him/her, as would some others I know. But guess what? There's a shortage.

Don't be stubborn. Ask for help. There's no shame in that within the aircraft hobby. We love helping people. It makes us feel good.

#### Little Scrapper

HBA Supporter
Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Another point, and I'm sure you don't want to hear this, lol, but go volunteer. Find every chapter within a 100 miles and call them and say you want to volunteer for something. I volunteered to help be a plumber over 20+ years ago and now I'm a master plumber and business owner. Aviation is the same. My aviation hobby started because I welded a rudder for a guy for free. Next thing I know I'm welding for all these crazy nut bags. Next thing I know I'm flying a WACO with a total stranger. Then came the Taylorcraft. Then the Cub. Then the PPG. I mean, things have a way of happening if you put yourself in the right position and just help others. I've given away many airplane parts to people for free, including members on the forum here. There's no greater family than the aviation family. #### choppergirl ##### Well-Known Member Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

Guess I didn't comment on it. But that video was the first person view ultralight video I watched, specifically searching for Ultrastar videos, after stumbling across the the Sun N Fun one... which blew me away. After seeing that I wanted an Ultrastar.

After thinking about CG issues, I thought, it probably would be easier to move the wings forward a bit closer to engine (try a half inch, inch, then if still not enough, two, then three, just tweak back and forth...)... rather than move the pilot... back. Seems easier than suspend the whole plane by a hook from a rafter with the pilot in it to find the CG *which I'll probably do because my dad has a rafter and one of those crank pulleys* or do insane amounts of math. But... cross that bridge when I get to it.

Surfing job boards today, oh my god, does the job market completely suck... *frown* And by completely, I mean completely.

@Little Scrapper - just take a kid up in a plane. If that don't sell a kid on learning to fly, I don't know what would... I'm even thinking of taking my nice looking Nikon digital 5mp camera when I go around airplanes, in the hopes I can chit chat my way into a free ride by taking some free professional looking pics for the pilots... I'm a whiz with framing shots and photoshop (when I'm actually trying, as opposed to snap a quick one and move along), and my camera is pretty much idiot proof.

I think I read there is a dearth of commercial jet airline pilots, those that fly the big passenger jets, because they are all getting old and retiring... out of my scope though.

#### Little Scrapper

HBA Supporter
Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide C&G is done using math, at least we try. There's no shortage of people on here that could walk you through this. #### blane.c ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

I wanted an Ultrastar.
Surfing job boards today, oh my god, does the job market completely suck... *frown* And by completely, I mean completely.
I like the Ultrastar too, it looks so easy to make modifications to.
Go into business for yourself, while you are young and before the parasites suck the life out of you.

#### choppergirl

##### Well-Known Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide @Little Scrapper -- Maths is hard. Actually I excelled in math. Algebra, Geometry, all the way up to Calculus, which I tried to teach myself, and then I tanked. Oh well. What's old, is new again... sure looks a heck of a lot like my Volmer... : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYo8S9jRoek (oddly using a very similiar color scheme I wanted to go with (white, orange, black, silver grey) ~ ~ ~ At$40,000, e-anything is out for me thought... if I want a quiet flight, I'll idle the motor...

Motor question: between the two cylinder Rotax's, Cuyunas, and Kawasakis, which are the easiest to pick up used replacement parts for.. as in, largest supply of used parts out for them? They all are discontinued, of course, but I was going to go with the Kawasaki because there seems to be a lot more used parts floating around for those on ebay. Or...?

Eventually maybe I'll need to replace bearings, rings, seals, gaskets, maybe a cylinder barrel or two, all that sort of thing... so... some used parts, some brand new... kind of a concern before I plunk money down and lock myself into an engine platform for years... I'm thinking getting anything for these engines is going to get really start to get tougher and tougher over time... at this point.

#### Dana

Staff member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Rotax parts are expensive and readily available. Cuyuna parts are relatively cheap and readily available. I don't know about Kawasaki. #### VAPORTRAIL ##### Well-Known Member #### choppergirl ##### Well-Known Member Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

Went to EAA today. I showed up while everyone was still eating lunch, and not wanting to just walk in on them, I snarfed a brownie and wandered back out, down the hangers to look at the Quicksilver again and its motor, and see if I could tell if its two banger was a rotax, cuyuna, or kawa from a distance.

Some super old guy in his 80's was leaving early I guess and saw me standing around in front of it and stopped his truck, I guess paranoid of people damaging their planes, so I told him who I was so he knew I was an airplane friendly propellor head and talked to him a bit. Helicopter pilot from the Korean war. He was building two planes... one with a susuki and the other using a similiar sized largish experimental class engine. I probably should offered to help but I assumed he probably already had some one helping him considering how old he was. No doubt he would of taken me to see his projects... if I had offered, I bet.

So after that I walked back and sat through the dullest rule by democratic nod voting meeting ever as a visitor. Finally that was over. They had a guest speaker talk about his interviewing ww2 airmen for posterity and afterwards I gave him a bunch of stuff on my grandpa which got him interested... since as he said still lots of bomber crew around but fighter pilots... not so much so.

Oh the people were super friendly and all and plenty introduced themselves, since it was like walking in on a family where everybody knew everybody else forever because the same bunch obviously came to meeting after meeting. So yeah it was a perogative for everrybody to say hi to the stranger and introduce themselves. Which I dont mind, much better to be superfriendly than super apathetic anyday.

But... hmm.. not really my cup of tea. Too many rules and silliness and like one grand little poohbah lodge meeting. I guess I'm a maverick. Rebels.. hmmm... we don't join groups. It's against our philosophy. Too many boy scouts there for my taste. ;-)

So now I want my own little clandestine airstrip instead. Maybe carved out in the middle of some lumber company land, who won't be back for the next 30 years or so, with visible no road access at all unless you can snake your way in with a motorbike. I want to call it Choppergirl's 30 mile, after a little airstrip my grandfather made an emergency landing at once, called 30 mile.... after a quick wiki search it popped up...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Moresby_Airfield_Complex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Airfield

Just the most spartan of facilities... a little one plane unmanned tin hanger, a barrel of aviation gas with a handcrank, and maybe a posterboard with some info on it or place for visitors could sit down in a little 5x9 wooden windowed hutch (in case someone had to wait out bad weather) with a table and chair in it and a guest log book. Decorate the inside with bric a brac and metal signs. Have some cases of complimentary canned soft drinks on tap, so you could drink a cool one before you flew off... after checking the wind sock... maybe... a shelf with controversial books on it....

Oh I'll probably still visit EAA plenty... sign in as a visitor. But I'm not joining. Super nice people, I plan to at least meet or get to know them all, but to quote Austin Powers, not my bag, baby!

I want a secret little airstrip off the grid... with 30 MILE in huge chawky letters visible from the air...

http://marlee2.peachcountry.com/pics/

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-38/42-66851.html

http://marlee2.peachcountry.com/

@VAPORTRAIL - Jbird is only an option at this point if I win at a slot machine...

Still a "go" on buying the Cuyuna engine, if I can come up with the scratch... I emailed the seller yesterday and he says he still has it for sale, with this reply:

"This motor came off a friends kolb firefly and was in running condition. I will check to see if I can find the hour meter and altimeter to give you the exact hours. It has been stored for some years so at best it will need a carb rebuild, plugs etc. even if you wanted a shop go though it completely its around 400- 600. That gives you plenty of savings off a new or rebuilt engine The cost of a 35 hp refurbished engine is about 1500 to 3000. That's without the reduction prop drive on this engine. that another grand, Let me know thanks"

Otherwise, Happy Valentines Day everybody.

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#### Little Scrapper

HBA Supporter
Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Just remember, those "Boy Scouts" have actual experience. They don't talk about flying, they actually fly. #### BJC ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

Too many boy scouts there for my taste. ;-)
Good luck with your project. I'm out.

BJC

#### TFF

Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Might not be your tea, but you have to pay your dues. Either seek out Boy Scouts or pay in blood. Not much in between. No one likes the business part. #### StarJar ##### Well-Known Member Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

Isn't her description sort of an honest Rockwell painting of the EAA these days? We got to be able to laugh at ourselves people. You told her to go, and she went. Is this a microcosm of the generation gap that exists in aviation today? She was just being honest, and that's how some youngins are now days. I've corresponded with her privately and she does plan to get dual instruction. She's very bright and caught on quickly to some structural and cg challenges she faces with her engine swap.
I also think that as she gets into it more, the gap will shrink, and there will be more mutual respect going on.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
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Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide I don't see the issue. TFF and BJC are also honest. I've lived long enough to know how this story probably will end. I'm honest too, I wish her well. But here's another honest response, if you don't have$5 and don't like experienced advice what would that Rockwell painting really look like.

The world certainly has changed.

#### Wayne

Log Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Sadly many EAA meetings follow this type of structure, but there is no formal requirement for that - it's usually a case of "this is how we have always done it". We certainly don't do it in my Chapter, and I know some very successful chapters who don't do it either. There is one very low number Chapter near me that has members with well over 50 years of tenure - and they do the gavel type meetings and they are not doing well at all. Super nice people with hundreds of years of combined experience - just following their own path is all. There's no rule that says they have to grow or be relevant to the young adults of today. Here's the thing CG, and I know I sound like I'm patronizing you and nothing could be further from the truth, I'm really glad you went to the EAA meeting, and I'm sorry they seemed a bit square to you. My Chapter seemed that way to me too and I'm 51 years old for goodness sake. Things can change though - we re-wrote the way we do business and now every meeting is like a Monty Python skit. The thing is - all of these Chapters are made up of people of all different types, and the types that go to the meetings might not be your cup of tea - but there people around who will be. If you decide not to go back it's cool, but I'd still find a way to hang out at the airport if you can because once you find someone more compatible you'll be on your way. Feel free to friend EAA 461 and SimplyFLYAdventures on Facebook to see a slightly different perspective - I have a leadership role in both organizations. Maybe you'll bump into someone you have more in common with. And, one day, if you get really riled up you can make change happen and turn that Chapter around to be more approachable to people just like you - it's not that hard to do Wayne #### plncraze ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but on the YAHOO group VULA there are a number of VJ-24 pictures in the "pictures" section. Also the book "Flying from My Mind" by David Cook is available on Amazon for Kindle for just a few dollars. Cook flew a Volmer Jensen ultralight across the English Channel and flew with Jensen in the US.

#### StarJar

##### Well-Known Member
Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide I don't see the issue. TFF and BJC are also honest. I've lived long enough to know how this story probably will end. I'm honest too, I wish her well. But here's another honest response, if you don't have$5 and don't like experienced advice what would that Rockwell painting really look like.

The world certainly has changed.
I hear that Scrapper and fair points. But now look at car clubs. The old guys want to do it their way, and the young ones want to do it THEIR way, so I imagine the twain don't meet there either.
Of course there is the difference that if she is not trained properly she will die. But what is sitting in an EAA meeting going to do for her? She's already rebuilt two motorcycle engines by herself, and she loves her plane and wants to get on with it.
Down the road she might be more interested in the social aspects.
I really hope someone shows her how to keep from killing herself in a plane, and then she'll be good to go. I think 10 hours would be nice, and none too many. But she's got a build on her plate now, and they are two different things.
I see Wayne also had some ideas. Thanks

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#### StarJar

Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's $38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide Maybe I sympathize with her a bit because I'm not really a very social person. Some people are just that way. Of course it can come back and bite you, and it does. But the more meetings I went to, the more stuff would be coming back and biting me. But that's just me, I've been that way for 30 years. I'm happy designing, researching, and building and hopefully flying again. but put me in a room full of people and its difficult for me. I actually got a medical discharge from the Navy for it. I read books and try to work on it daily. But I always did well in ppl training and everyone who knew me knew I had an aptitude for flying. My instructor said I could have taken my checlride at 35 hours, except that I wasn't 17 yet. Anyway, it's not about me, I'm just saying I can relate to her feelings about getting involved with groups and stuff. I've been to one EAA meeting in my life. The people were nice, and they were discussing getting a club plane, but I had a lot of other issues going on and liked being alone. However some of my best memories were chilling out on the flight school porch, when some older pilots would happen by and we always had some fun conversations about the goings ons around the airport. I guess sort of a different kind of 'meeting'. Last edited: #### Little Scrapper ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Log Member Re: "Dorothy" - Choppergirl's$38 Volmer Jensen VJ-24W antique ultralight motor glide

With a wife and three kids I guess I look at this from a unique perspective. When I read the posts and responses I can't hardly imagine I'm the only one who sees serious warning signs. When I hear even the slightest hint of flying without proper training it's irresponsible to our struggling industry to just let it go.

I really don't see the problem with EAA chapters, they evolve and theye evolve because of leadership.

Anyhow, I should probably just walk away from this thread, but I do so with fear. Most things in life have a series of steps that, when followed, make a lot of sense. While I don't have private conversations with her I did read every post here and that spelled out quite a story.

It doesn't matter to me if she goes to a meeting but to shrug off an experienced older generation so quickly speaks volumes about an individuals ability to make decisions. Not having \$15 and still trying to build an airplane also speaks volumes about an individuals ability to make decisions and prioritize life.

I just pray she makes wise decisions. People die in airplanes, usually from poor decisions.

Anyhow, good luck and stick with your dreams.

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