Doing your own annual?

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Geno

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I saw in "for sale" thread that lack of a bill of sale from previous ownership changes on an unbuilt aircraft can affect the ability to do your own annuals. Can someone explain the short and sweet version of this to me or maybe direct me to the regulation itself?
 

Skinnybird

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Someone who builds an E-AB can get a repairman certificate on the airplane they built. Then they can do the annual condition inspection themselves, otherwise you must have an A&P, but not an AI to sign off on it (you can still do the work, but an A&P must sign). If you sell the airplane you built AND OBTAINED THE RC ON, that repairman certificate does not transfer. Someone will probably come along and offer the regulation numbers that pertain here.
 
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D Hillberg

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How far is the build? If you can squeeze 51% into the final stretch you just sign the affidavit for your Repairman certificate.
Seen whole groups whos club built a plane and drew straws for who got the certificate . . .
FAA only cares who's going to be responsible for the maintenance later
 

Geno

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It was just a theoretical situation as I'm not interested in that particular aircraft.

From EEA website:

"Repairmen Certificates

The sport pilot/light-sport aircraft rule creates a new Light-Sport Repairmen certificate—with either a maintenance or inspection rating. To earn an FAA repairman certificate of any type, you must:

Be at least 18 years old
Speak, read, and understand English
Be a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident
Demonstrate the requisite skill to determine whether an E-LSA or S-LSA is in a condition for safe operation
For an Inspection rating—complete a 16 hour course on the inspection requirements of the particular class of light-sport aircraft;
For a Maintenance rating—complete a course – 120 hours (airplane category); 104 hours (weight shift or powered parachute); 80 hours (glider or lighter-than-air) -- on the maintenance and inspection requirements of the particular class of light-sport aircraft.
Other LSA Maintenance Options

The annual condition inspection on special light-sport airworthiness certificated aircraft--can be completed by:

An appropriately rated mechanic—that is, A&P
An appropriately rated repair station; or
A light-sport repairman with a maintenance rating.
maintenance can be performed by a certificated pilot (Sport Pilot rating or higher)
The annual condition inspection on experimental light-sport airworthiness certificated aircraft--can be completed by:

An appropriately rated mechanic—that is, an A&P
An appropriately rated repair station; or
A light-sport repairman with a maintenance rating; or
A light-sport repairman with a inspection rating (only on aircraft you own).
No rating is required to perform maintenance on experimental light-sport airworthiness certificated aircraft."

I was under the impression I could purchase a flying craft, do a 16 hour course and then do my own maintenance/inspections.
 

TFF

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What the FAA wants to know about is stolen or has been built by a professional. Both is trying to pass off something that is not as advertised. A homebuilt has to be built 51% by an amateur. The last person to finish it can claim the repair certificate, but they might need to prove they know the airplane inside out, so you don’t want to put the last screw in and know nothing about it. Bill of sale is a chain of ownership that at least make the FAA feel good and put the blame on you if you lie about it.

If you are interested in LSA, that is different than homebuilt Experimental Amateur Built. That has the owner maintenance that is not attached to building but has other rules.
 

Stolch

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Perhaps that statement is referencing FAR 65.107, PRIVILEGES AND LIMITATIONS OF A REPAIRMAN (LSA) CERTIFICATE WITH AN INSPECTION RATING. A person holding a repairman (LSA) certificate with an inspection rating is limited to performing the annual condition inspection on an ELSA certificated under § 21.191(i)(1) that the repairman owns and that is identified on the repairman certificate by the aircraft registration and serial number. Non-ownership of the aircraft identified on the holder’s repairman certificate will suspend the privileges of the certificate.
You are wise to do your research before buying under the assumption about what you will be able to do to maintain airworthiness for a particular aircraft. For example, certificated repairmen (LSA) may not return to service an amateur-built aircraft, as currently, only the builder of an aircraft certificated as E-AB may sign off the 12 month condition inspection. No subsequent owner may do so regardless of any maintenance courses they’ve paid for unless they possess an IA.
 

Skinnybird

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Only the builder of an aircraft certificated as E-AB may sign off the 12 month condition inspection. No subsequent owner may do so regardless of any maintenance courses they’ve paid for unless they possess an IA...
Not trying to pick nits, but according to Part 43, Appendix D. If you built your E-AB airplane and received a Repairman Certificate from the FAA, you are eligible to perform the yearly condition inspection. If you are not the builder, you will need a licensed A&P mechanic to sign off your inspection. Unlike a certificated airplane owner, you do not need an A&P with Inspection Authorization.
 

Geno

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From Rainbow Aviation's website:

"There is only one repairman certificate, but two ratings: The “repairman (light sport) with an Inspection rating” (LSRI) and the “Repairman (light-sport aircraft)—Maintenance rating.” (LSRM) The inspection rating is available by attending a 16 hour, two day repairman course. The maintenance rating is only available by attending a much longer 80-120 hour Repairman course.

Experimental Light Sport Aircraft

As a sport pilot flying an ELSA for pleasure, you only need the 16 hour inspection course. Classes are normally schedule on the weekend and offered across the country Successful completion of the LSA Repairman Inspection course, allows you to apply for an FAA Repairman Certificate for any Experimental Light Sport Aircraft which you own or one you purchase in the future. (Note: this does not apply to Experimental Amateur Built) Once the aircraft is listed on your repairman certificate, you are allowed to do the condition inspection each year. You do not have to be the builder. You simply have to have successfully completed the 16 hour training course for LSA Repairman Inspection in the assigned “class” of the selected course (airplane, weight shift, powered parachute, glider, gyroplane, or lighter-than-air). There is no expiration date on the certificate of course completion. You do not need to currently own an ELSA."

This says nothing about having to build the plane or any portion of the plane. 16 hour course to do your own inspections, 120 hour repairman course (three weeks) to perform repairs for yourself and others including for hire (LSA only - not GA).

Unless I'm interpreting incorrectly somehow?
 

Skinnybird

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From Rainbow Aviation's website... Unless I'm interpreting incorrectly somehow?
If you are seriously considering something with large finanical and time costs, please read the original source (actual regulations) rather than a well meaning, and perhaps even well reasoned synopsis (secondary source) by someone other than an attorney you paid. Because magazine publishers and or website owners don't have skin in the game. If push comes to shove, only what is printed in the regulations matters, even when it is wrong (and in a half-century or so I have seen dozens of errors in printed regulations).

I really only know about E-AB, so I don't feel qualified to speak* on any of the LSA requirements although they seem quite similar.

*I shall resign my membership here immediately for admitting "I don't feel qualified to speak," :cool: rather than "just winging it." :cool:
 

Skinnybird

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(It) says nothing about having to build the plane or any portion of the plane. 16 hour course to do your own inspections, 120 hour repairman course (three weeks) to perform repairs for yourself and others including for hire (LSA only - not GA).
Not a big deal, but some confusion was created because your OP did not mention "LSA" and I (and likely others, because this is the homebuiltairplanes.com/forums) assumed you were talking about E-AB. (Ironic because my aircraft is certificated.)
 

Skinnybird

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No bad exists here. The FAA is filled with bureaucrats and they speak / type a weird language only they fully understand (maybe), the rest of us just muddle through it.
 

Vigilant1

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Honestly, the info in the thread is not very useful due to unstated or unclear assumptions. The rules for who can do various types of maintenance and inspections are based on whether the aircraft is an E-AB (but not an ELSA) or an E-AB that is also an ELSA, or if it is an SLSA. Or, it could be a certified aircraft that meets the LSA requirements.

If we spell out exactly what we are talking about things will be more clear. It is all potentially very confusing for a newby.

Some explanation here.
Sport Aviation Specialties- Useful Information About LSA, SLSA, ELSA, & E-AB Aircraft

Somewhere there must be a Venn diagram showing the relationship between groups (certified, E-AB, LSA, ELSA, SLSA) with an example aircraft from each and the repair/inspection/modification guidance for each. A picture like that would clear a lot of things up, IMO.
 
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Dana

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I think the OP may be unfamiliar with the different experimental classes, which cause confusion due to how they overlap.

Experimental-Amateur Built (EAB) is the original homebuilt airplane classification. You have to show that the major portion (the so called "51% rule") was built by amateurs. The "primary builder" can apply for the repairman certificate, allowing him to do the annual condition inspection on that specific aircraft. Any subsequent owners can't get the repairman certificate, so they need an A&P for the inspection, unless that original builder is willing to do it.

If an EAB meets the LSA limits it can be flown by a Sport Pilot, but that has nothing to do with how it's registered or maintained.

An Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (ELSA) is either built from an approved ELSA kit, or converted from a factory built Special Light Sport Aircraft (SLSA). If built from a kit, there is no 51% rule. Any owner (not just the original builder) of an ELSA can take the 16 hour course and get the LSA repairman certificate which allows him to do the inspection on any ELSA he owns. The LSA repairman certificate is not good for LSA compliant EAB aircraft; it has to be registered ELSA.

Note that while they're called "repairman" certificates they really should be called "inspector" certificates, anybody can repair or maintain any experimental aircraft.
 

rv7charlie

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Want more confusion?
or an E-AB that is also an ELSA
does not exist. There are E-AB that can be flown by Sport Pilots, and there are ELSA that can be flown by any pilot, but they are either E-AB or ELSA. They can't be both.
For example: A Van's RV12 built outside the factory is licensed as ELSA *only* if it is built to conform exactly (including avionics, etc) to the factory LSA examples. If there's any deviation, it must be licensed as an E-AB. It cannot be both.
 

Vigilant1

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For example: A Van's RV12 built outside the factory is licensed as ELSA *only* if it is built to conform exactly (including avionics, etc) to the factory LSA examples. If there's any deviation, it must be licensed as an E-AB. It cannot be both.
More confusion: After the airworthiness certificate is issued for the ELSA, lots of changes can be made, as long as the plane remains within the LSA criteria.
From a Kitplanes piece linked below:

I’ve already alluded to an FAA ruling that makes it legal for the builder of an ELSA to make changes. In the case of a kit such as the RV-12, any change that does not take the aircraft outside of the LSA definition may be made as soon as the pink airworthiness certificate is signed by the FAA’s inspector, usually a DAR.
....
It’s almost as if Piper and Cessna owners were allowed to make any changes they wanted.
.

Anyway, if someone says his aircraft is an "Experimental", we don't know much about it. We need to ask if It is "Experimental-Amateur Built" or if it is " Experimental Light Sport Aircraft" or if it is an E-AB that meets LSA criteria. They are three different animals.

Some good info on ELSA quirks in this Kitplanes article. Understanding Experimental Light Sport Aircraft
 
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Wanttaja

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Somewhere there must be a Venn diagram showing the relationship between groups (certified, E-AB, LSA, ELSA, SLSA) with an example aircraft from each and the repair/inspection/modification guidance for each. A picture like that would clear a lot of things up, IMO.
Venn diagram? Aw, c'mon, what's the fun in that.... :)
Sport Pilot and LSA big chart - modified.jpg
[Edit: Corrected per comments]

Ron Wanttaja
 
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