Digital information and aviation...

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by MadProfessor8138, Oct 24, 2019.

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  1. Oct 24, 2019 #1

    MadProfessor8138

    MadProfessor8138

    MadProfessor8138

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    So,this question may seem far fetched but I think it may ultimately relate to aviation one day......

    Now that Google has developed a computer that can perform quantum calculations.....does anyone think that it will ever be possible to download muscle memory into a human brain and teach someone to fly with just a computer program that supplies their brain with the information ?
    Sorta like in the Matrix and she needed to know how to fly a Huey so they downloaded the program into her brain.

    Flying is nothing more than cognitive thinking and muscle memory.....
    Want to learn how to fly ?......$5,000 for the download and BOOM,you're a pilot now.

    Just a curiosity question.....

    Kevin
     
  2. Oct 24, 2019 #2

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

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    I'm no physician, but isn't a lot of "muscle memory" located in the brain stem, not the brain itself?

    Besides that, most people learn to fly (or, at least they did when I was young and learning to fly) to meet a challenge and master the art. One gets a PPL and starts improving his skills (which are really basic at that point, just enough to get past the exams) and heads for Commercial level or better, IFR, Flight Instructor, multi, seaplane, and so on. It's gratifying and satisfying to achieve all that, but it IS expensive. Downloading it directly into your brain would cheapen it, make it common, and you might not do much with it anyway since it would be nothing special at all. No status, either. And the airplane would still cost the same big price.

    It's more likely that AI will fly the airplane, not a human pilot. Much easier to get a computer to do the job directly rtaher than program a human to do it. Eliminates the weak link, see?

    It's a little like buying a "51%" kit that's already 97% assembled, finishing it and calling it your creation. No more than me heating a frozen pizza and saying I made that pizza. The plans-built scratch-builder has much bigger bragging rights in the homebuilt world, especially if he designed the airplane and it turns out to be really successful.
     
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  3. Oct 24, 2019 #3

    MadProfessor8138

    MadProfessor8138

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    Very good points Dan and I agree with the majority of your opinions.

    I've worked in the medical field for the majority of my grown life and have watched the advancements made over the years....absolutely astonishing.
    When it comes to the brain though,we still know very little about it and its functions because individuals are different and the brain is "somewhat" adaptive.
    That's why during surgery the patient is generally awake...so the surgeon will know if they are intruding on a section that controls speach,vision,cognitive thinking,etc.
    So pin pointing where muscle memory originates from is still up in the air a bit,at this time.

    I agree that a human would be the weak link in most scenarios.
    However,being able to digitally load information into the human could only be a benefit in my opinion.
    We havent got to the point that computers can make rational decisions or judgement calls so I think the human will remain a factor for quite some time.
    But once the computers start "thinking" for themselves......well.........

    Kevin
     
  4. Oct 24, 2019 #4

    12notes

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    Unlikely on any reasonable time scale. We still don't know how the brain really works, and it would be an even more difficult problem to figure out how muscle memory relates to individual experience and make changes to the correct brain structures. The brain adapts to changes, what one person learns might be stored in a completely different way than another person. Learning multiple languages as a child makes many fundamental changes in how you process languages, learning a second language as an adult involves very modifying very different set patterns. And we have no idea how a fast upload process would work even if we knew where to put the information.

    Quantum computers are really good at certain types of calculations, but not the answer to every problem. While having them will help, it's very unlikely that they are the advancement that will make truly analyzing brain function and storage possible.

    Medical science has made huge advancements in some areas, but is borderline primitive in others. They discovered a new organ in mice last year, and are still unsure if it exists in humans (nociceptive glio-neural complex). It's just under the skin, and we can't tell if it exists. Biology is messy and doesn't give clear results. There's a lot of basic information we have yet to learn.
     
  5. Oct 24, 2019 #5

    Pops

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    There is more to the brain than the physical realm.
     
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  6. Oct 24, 2019 #6

    Mad MAC

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    One could just avoid the muscle memory element. Just image if HBA had a section where you could download the experience of a 40 year stress engineer (or aerodynamist, CADCAM expert, etc. etc) straight to your brain.
     
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  7. Oct 25, 2019 #7

    Aerowerx

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/technology/quantum-computing-google.html

    I was skeptical until I read that article.

    Besides, the human brain, the entire nervous system in fact, is an analog nonlinear neural network using threshold logic with multiple enzyme messengers to the "peripherals". This is a far cry from even quantum computing, if I understood what they were getting at.

    Learning to fly a plane is far more than just downloading some bits to a flash memory.
     
  8. Oct 25, 2019 #8

    MadProfessor8138

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    That was the point of my question.....

    What if you could download the knowledge and experience from a great pilot into someone else.
    They would have the ability to fly an aircraft with confidence because they now have years of experience in aviation.
    Imagine the applications that the civilian sector/military could find for this......no more banging up aircraft training people,expending fuel or endangering an Instructor......

    The point was......I wonder if we will ever reach that stage with our technology....

    Kevin
     
  9. Oct 25, 2019 #9

    Aerowerx

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    Hmmm.

    Seem to recall an Isaac Asimov story based on that idea. The hero of the story thought he was stupid because he wasn't "programmed" with his career when he graduated from high school. Instead he was sent to a special institution. To make a long story short, he later learned that a certain number of students were reserved because of their exceptional brilliance. Where do you think the next "version" of the programming came from? The institution was an institution of higher learning.

    Most students that were programmed right out of high school became obsolete in a few years, and could only find employment in a back water "primitive" area of the galaxy that had not yet caught up with the latest technology.

    No thank you. I do not like the idea. I think learning is half the fun. So, you wake up one day flying like Bob Hoover. Then what do you do?

    And I am sure that the CFI union would just LOVE this idea! To quote from the movie "The Encredibles": "When everyone is a Super, no one is."
     
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  10. Oct 25, 2019 #10

    Pops

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    Besides that, my brain would blow a fuse. Can't make a silk purse out of a mouse's ear. :)

    A man just has to know his limitations.
     
  11. Oct 25, 2019 #11

    MadProfessor8138

    MadProfessor8138

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    There were also other movies that hit on this concept.....The Lawnmower Man, probably being the closest.

    I agree that learning is part of the fun but I'm also looking at the aspect of safety.
    There probably isnt a single pilot alive that can do everything by the book,make judgement calls,make rational decisions and never make a mistake.
    There are pilots with 1,000's of hours that make fatal mistakes....possibly due to encountering a situation that they are/were not familiar with.
    At that point....those 1,000's of hours were as useful to them as say 20 hours is/are to a student pilot.
    But,if they were able to have the knowledge of several different pilots in their subconsciense then possibly the situation could be handled differently and a better outcome acheived.

    I really hope we dont get too carried away with this thread because I was merely thinking allowed when I posed the question.
    Everyone that has chimed in so far has some very valid points and its appreciated .

    Kevin
     
  12. Oct 25, 2019 #12

    MadProfessor8138

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    I'm thinking that if I knew a 1/3 of what Pops has forgotten then I would be doing fine.
    Hey Pops,can I pick your brain about a few things.......lol

    Kevin
     
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  13. Oct 25, 2019 #13

    TFF

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    Where would pride of accomplishment come in?
     
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  14. Oct 25, 2019 #14

    Pops

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    Don't ask me, I'm so old I wake up in a new world everyday :) Everything looks so new and fresh, even my wife of 59+ years, well that is what she told me :)
     
  15. Oct 25, 2019 #15

    Pops

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    I agree, just like flying, the trip is the enjoyment . That would be just like having all the money you wanted. You wouldn't appreciate what you have.
    Besides, it fun to see what you can do without a full load :)
     
  16. Oct 25, 2019 #16

    Dan Thomas

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    At our age the days go by two and three at a time...
     
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  17. Oct 25, 2019 #17

    Pops

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    Truer words were never spoken. A week goes by with a blink of an eye. I think its Tuesday and its Friday already. You could make a lot of money if you could just slow time down :)
     
  18. Oct 25, 2019 #18

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

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    Just getting paid for those days when we worked slowed them down terribly. And before that, schoolwork slowed the days and summer vacation sped them up.
     

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