# Decisions, decision......

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#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Have been working (Slowly) on a CGS Hawk. With business the way it is, it will be awhile until I get the time and circumstances to get the bird flying. 99% a time/space problem. My warehouse is full and I have little space to work on the airplane. Just found a flyable Hawk, 503 Rotax, decent shape, for not much more than what the wing covers for the present bird will cost. Thinking about buying it and selling the project. The "other" bird is N-numbered...owner is flying it as an Ultralight at present with a 5 gal. tank. N number still on it. Legal?? He says switch to a 10 gal tank and then it is an LSA. I could always tape over the N number, but don't want to cross any legal lines, either. Comments??

Mission is to get airborne. Been flying some in a 150, but this would take all my flight instruction . Local flying mostly, but would like to work on some X/C flights as well. Think the Hawk with the 503 would have the range to do some 400 mile cross-countries.
Derswede

#### challenger_II

##### Well-Known Member
I have always used 5 gal/hr as my base fuel burn for a 503 DCDI (I run at a higher rpm than some folks do), on a 10 gal tank. If you use your watch for a fuel flow meter, you should have a safe 1 1/2 hour range per fill-up.
If you obscure the registration number, and play UL (Wink! Wink! Nudge! Nudge!), be advised that the Feds have a habit of looking at the size of the engine, and the size of the tank, rather than dragging out a set of scales. As you plan extended CC, this extends the area that you may stumble across the dreaded Ramp Check.

Just saying...

#### plncraze

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Can you buy the flying one and "swap" the data plates? The registered LSA is a data plate and logbook. I believe if you are a licensed mechanic you can do that.

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
The "other" bird is N-numbered...owner is flying it as an Ultralight at present with a 5 gal. tank. N number still on it. Legal?? He says switch to a 10 gal tank and then it is an LSA. I could always tape over the N number, but don't want to cross any legal lines, either. Comments??
Not legal. If a plane is N-numbered, to fly as an ultralight you have to cancel the registration and turn in the airworthiness certificate... at which point it is forever an ultralight.

If you expect to register it, you need to get the airworthiness certificate, operating limitations, and bill of sale from the last registered owner.

Can you buy the flying one and "swap" the data plates? The registered LSA is a data plate and logbook. I believe if you are a licensed mechanic you can do that.
That is absolutely not legal... not to say people haven't done it, usually with rare antiques. The joke is, "jack up the data plate, slide a new plane underneath, add four new rivets, and sign off the rebuild."

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
If you haven't flown one, you will really like the CGS Hawk.

Dana was spot on with the registration advice.

My only input is to confirm that the 503 is gonna want about 5 gph if you don't push it too hard. A 400 hundred mile cross country is very doable but you will need a calendar instead of a watch to mark the travel time.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for confirming my suspicions on the ‘run it like an Ultralight’ bit. On the X/C’s, was looking at my sectionals and have airports at about the 100 mile points in the 400 mi trip. Think I could set up refuel points to allow me to accomplish such a flight. Majority of my flight time was in an old, worn out Musketeer, lately in a 150. Solo’ed many years ago, current CFI told me that I had not forgotten much. I have 3-4 small airports nearby, one grass strip 3-4 miles away. Waiting to hear from the owner if I can store the Hawk there. Wish I had more time, etc, but wishing does not make it so. I keep seeing sad, neglected planes on local ramps and it makes me want to get back in the air. At the airport where this Hawk is at, there was a Swift, a Maule and two other birds that have not moved in at least a decade. If I snag this Hawk, at least it will not share such misery!

Derswede

#### pwood66889

##### Well-Known Member
"If I snag this Hawk, at least it will not share such misery!"
Aircraft "Rescues:" Finding "Forever Homes" for planes between adequate owners. Go for it, Derswede!

#### Doran Jaffas

##### Well-Known Member
If you're working toward your pilot's license then I would go with the registered aircraft for sure. Either that or I'll finish the one you have which would then be brand new and have that registered as well but then you have a certain tes area and test period that must be accomplished before you can take it on any type of Cross country flight. Including the maneuvers and engine run-in time etc. buying the currently registered one might be the best option for you right now as long and I mean as long as it is in good shape and not needing anything major in the near future. The slower the airplane the longer those Cross country flights will take and remember the CGS hawk is a lighter aircraft and will be more subject to mild turbulence than the Cessna 150 or other two place aircraft that are heavier. The Hawk is an incredible airplane that has a proven history behind it so I would not dish it in any way but again with any really like airplane the turbulence it would normally be mild and something slightly heavier will be felt pretty dramatically. Even from my Tri-Pacer to my Tailwind the difference in the way turbulence feels is significant and the Tailwind is infinitely heavier than the CGS Hawk would be. Just saying here on a short end is to find what your comfort level is and if you're comfortable is in flying that particular aircraft and a long cross country go for it! Was all that many years ago when you think about it that aviation was mostly aircraft in that same weight and category.

Good luck and please keep us posted. I for one am very interested in your progress and I applaud you and encourage you on your way to getting your pilot's license. I've been an aviator now for 37 plus years and still green like a kid every time I even get to the hanger much less pull the airplane out and go flying.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
I will confirm that Doran Jaffas is absolutely correct about the light wing loading on a Hawk (and any other ultralight aircraft). Cross country flying is best done by going early in the morning and returning in the evening. Middle of the day flying can be a great exercise of pilot skills while doing some white knuckle flying.

I owned a Challenger ll CWS and flew it (along with various other ultralights) on a number of cross country flights. If you can get up high the air is smoother and cooler but there is always the part where you have to come back down and land. In the middle of the day it can be interesting.

Here's a classic example. The good part here is that the pilot kept his head and did what worked for him:

#### radfordc

##### Well-Known Member
Finally, a topic I'm expert on. Flying my Hawk was the most fun I've had with clothes on. I've never flown another UL that flys as well. XC in a Hawk isn't a big deal as long as you respect the weather. I bought a Hawk from a guy in San Antonio and flew it home to Kansas City....two long days and about 15 stops as I recall. That plane had a 447 and a 5 gal tank and cruised at 55mph burning about 2.5-3 gal/hr. I did carry a small plastic gas can with a couple gallons extra. Stops were planned every 75 miles or so. No fuel gauge either so being conservative was prudent. I landed once at a fuel stop and found no fuel available. I added the extra gas and pressed on but ended up making a precautionary landing at a private strip and walking to a gas station for more fuel.

After that trip I switched to a 503 and a 10 gal tank which made fuel stop planning a lot easier. Flew her to Oshkosh one year which was a treat for me. Regarding weather awareness...when I needed to head home from Oshkosh the weather was real "iffy"....low clouds and threat of rain. OSH was IFR until mid-morning. I headed home hoping for the best...not the best of plans. Along the way I ran into deteriorating conditions...clouds and rain...heavy rain. At one point I was down to 200 AGL and maybe 1/4 mile visibility and was looking for a place to land when the rain let up and the clouds started clearing. That was maybe one the worst judgement calls I've made in a plane. Not proud of it, but makes for another "hangar tale".

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Well, as of this evening, I own it. 503 dual plug, it is registered, now to find an airstrip to base it at. The local one is now lousy with Boat guys, he rented out all the hanger space and does not look like anything is left. Will know tomorrow. Will also visit next closest strip, owner has a T-6, knew my father well, and is very active still in rebuilding aircraft. Has one of the Prettiest model 36 Bonanzas in the area, don't know if he will tolerate an "Ultralight" at his field. Will find out! Will be getting some 150 time next week as a refresher. Now to install radio and GPS, as well as proper antenna. Guess I should also consider a parachute, no ballistic chute fittted to the Hawk.

Derswede

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Well, as of this evening, I own it. 503 dual plug, it is registered, now to find an airstrip to base it at.

Guess I should also consider a parachute, no ballistic chute fitted to the Hawk.

Derswede

Pics or it didn't happen!

Congrats!

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Wow, got called out immediately! Will have better photos later. Have a 3 blade prop off the other bird, will see if it works with the 503. Have a few other bits as well, fibreglas landing gear legs, etc. As I am close to GSO airport, will mount a lightweight Icom HT airband radio, just in case. GPS is the next item, guess Foreflight or similar on a light IPad would work.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Good deal on the Hawk.

Question ... it may be the angle of the pics but is the tail boom straight? The Hawk has a curved tail boom unless someone has replaced it.

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Congratulations! Hawks are by all accounts nice flying planes.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Question ... it may be the angle of the pics but is the tail boom straight? The Hawk has a curved tail boom unless someone has replaced it.

Yes, first thing I looked at was to verify that it was straight and no cracks/deformations in the tube. "Properly Curved, that is!"

Derswede

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
A bit better shot. Will leave it at the current airport as I am doing a refresher in a 150 before trying to fly the Hawk.

Derswede

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
That is a great looking Hawk!

I like that leading edge wing wrap and the little wheel is correctly located ...

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Well, it is a nose dragger. The first one I got, which is still in pieces, has the frame mounts for a taildragger conversion. As I am getting the above one to get into the air a bit quicker, the thought has been bouncing around to take time, finish the other one but do a conversion to a TD format. Don't think I will have the time unless someone comes and buys all the equipment in my warehouse, which is unlikely. Anyone want to start a sock knitting plant? I have the equipment!

Derswede

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Well, it is a nose dragger. The first one I got, which is still in pieces, has the frame mounts for a taildragger conversion. As I am getting the above one to get into the air a bit quicker, the thought has been bouncing around to take time, finish the other one but do a conversion to a TD format.
Ohh I made a bad mistake as I didn't see the wheel on the wrong end! I was just looking at the nose in the air. Oh well ... it could be worse. It could have a Hirth on it!