Curtiss-Stinson Special

[challenger_II]

Ok, you may want to determine which of your desires is the priority. Keep in mind the limited resources available.
Do you want to have a safe, sound Part 103 ultralight flying machine, or do you want to replicate the Curtiss-Stinson Special (in such a manner that an unbiased bystander would recognize it as such). The two combined may not be obtainable.
Wires are lighter than struts. At 103 speeds, the drag of wires vs struts is negligible. Wires and fixtures will be way less expensive than struts.
One thing to always keep in the back of your head, everything in Aviation is a compromise. Never compromise safety over aesthetics.

The major premise behind fitting-out an existing airframe, and learning to fly a known quantity is that you will have knowledge of the structures involved, the experience of piloting, and you will not be a test pilot in an unknown scratch-built one-off aircraft.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

@challenger_II

I understand, yet an abandoned project still leaves me paying for something that is incomplete, throwing money at it and still being the crash-test dummy.

I could care less about unbiased bystanders, since very few even have a clue as to who Katherine Stinson was, or what the Curtiss-Stinson Special looked like. However, by raising curiosity, perhaps I can get some interested and asking questions.

As for the flying wires, I find the prospect of continually checking tension, adjusting as needed and then flying a tedious idea, making preflight an ordeal, where it doesn't have to be. If I went with flying-wires, I would have to go with pre-stressed synthetic, which is expensive and still need more maintenance due to deterioration. It's a negative feedback loop, either way.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't shirk them if I had them, but I'd rather not, at least at this point. If I somehow get hooked on being out for more authenticity, I can reconfigure the plane to include them and change-out the mono-struts for more accurate appearances.

 

[challenger_II]

I fail to see why One would desire to use pre-stressed synthetic when stranded cable has been highly successful for so many years. If weight of an eighth-inch cable is that critical, there is something seriously defective in the design.
In the years I have spent committing Aviation with wire-braced aircraft, I have had very little issue with wire tension. The few times I have had a slack wire, it was an indication something much more severe causing the issue.

As for picking up an ultralight project, if you shop around and find a machine that is simply neglected, and not a wreck, you can get into the project, and get it flying, much cheaper than building from scratch (even if the new-build was an identical machine).

 

[J.L. Frusha]

I fail to see why One would desire to use pre-stressed synthetic when stranded cable has been highly successful for so many years. If weight of an eighth-inch cable is that critical, there is something seriously defective in the design.
In the years I have spent committing Aviation with wire-braced aircraft, I have had very little issue with wire tension. The few times I have had a slack wire, it was an indication something much more severe causing the issue.

As for picking up an ultralight project, if you shop around and find a machine that is simply neglected, and not a wreck, you can get into the project, and get it flying, much cheaper than building from scratch (even if the new-build was an identical machine).

Maintaining tension without constantly needing adjustment until it stops stretching. The synthetic, once tight within spec only has 2% stretch, before it snaps. Steel cable can stretch from 10%-15%, then still snap w/o warning.

 

[flitzerpilot]

Pre-loading stranded cables is done to take up initial stretch, once formed. If your cable is stretching 10-15% in flight you will have already exceeded flight loads and sustained a structural failure or severe deformation and liable to have a serious accident.

The rigging on the Flitzer Z-1 is checked for tension but has never required adjustment in 30 years. My suggestion for the Curtiss Special would be to abandon the compression/tension struts, revert to flying wires over the two bays and while you're at it use simple wooden struts with conventional incidence bracing between just like the original. The incidence wires could be music wires which will not tend to stretch like stranded cables.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

Not being argumentative... I expect to dismount the wings, regularly. Telling me your wires haven't required adjustment in 30 years tells me you don't need to remove them for storage. I don't expect to have that luxury. I'm trying to put together a working farm. Being able to stow the plane in the equivalent of one parking space, or less, is going to be necessary, for multiple reasons, including the weather. We see tornadoes and hurricanes fairly regularly, along with our local wet season.

 

[flitzerpilot]

True, my hangar measures 22' x 22' and the wingspan is 18'. With care I could store a Z-1 and the smaller Goblin with some slight overlap within.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

True, my hangar measures 22' x 22' and the wingspan is 18'. With care I could store a Z-1 and the smaller Goblin with some slight overlap within.

Beautiful bird, nice space. No idea if I'll ever have a hangar. If so, it'll probably be a Quonset Hut.

"My horseshoe (I cannot read the 2nd word, so making a bad guess), Your Face"? Ja, Ich spreche eine kleine bischen Deutsch.

 

[David L. Downey]

Heads up, the Mynah (which I adore) has some stuff going on under the seat that your sketch does not. I recommend you either source Mynah plans or maybe Ragwing Motor Bipe and save yourself the trouble of figuring out if your own getup will work or not. I think the Motor Bipe plans are well under a hundred bucks, they may only be twenty five.

Any idea where one would source plans for the Mynah???

 

[Tiger Tim]

Any idea where one would source plans for the Mynah???

I’ve never tried actually looking. Be neat to have a set, though.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

Any idea where one would source plans for the Mynah???

No idea how to find them. Presumably Louis McNair would have some access, but have no address for him.

ZK-FKU is the registry for Louis McNair's Mynah, if anyone knows how to use that to find him.

 

[flitzerpilot]

JL. That elevator challenge on the Z-1K Kobold (Goblin) reads, 'Mein Handschuh: Dein Gesicht!' Handschuh = 'glove', in other words , 'My Gauntlet: Your Face!' the ultimate insult and challenge to an aerial combatant: rather like 'Du Doch Nicht!' that Udet painted on his Dr.1 and D.Vll elevators, ie. 'But not You!' ie, "Somebody may get me, but not YOU!" :0)

Of course the Flitzer series are not supposed to be ex-WW1 fighters, but represent fictitious German sportsplanes of the immediate Great War era which might have been flown by old Kampffliegers for post-war air displays in Europe and a little recreational aerial unarmed combat, which I can confirm is a lot of fun in the present day!

 

[J.L. Frusha]

"A slap in the face" I get it.

Handschuh is the word I couldn't read Pferdschuh Is what I thought it said

 

[J.L. Frusha]

OK, so, NOT being an artist, or knowing HOW to draw this any better, here's my concept for the fuselage...
*There are 2 posts in parallel behind and under the 5 gallon fuel-tank/seat with a bend at the top to support the head rest. from beneath the seat they extend forward, forming a V forward of the landing gear that meets at the faux 'radiator'.
*The forward curved tube bends up from a cross-piece to form the rear of the motor mount and 2 side pieces out and forward, also supporting the 'radiator'.
*What appears to be a rear curved tube is actually a bent loop to form a fuselage fore section to protect the pilot from debris and weather and supporting some thin, antiqued brass for appearance and function.
*The rear fuselage is a more-or-less flat plain with the Horizontal and vertical stabilizers, elevator, rudder and a castor type rear landing gear attached
*Engine is moved forward and gets a custom 4:1 Reduction drive, which keeps the engine at 4X original RPM (Smaller V2 with same exhaust pulses as original V8) plus a low speed (~1500 rpm) prop. (this also adds weight to bring the CG forward).
*Wings to be 2-Bay Biplane, as per Curtiss-Stinson Special, however they will be without flying wires and use N-struts. Plan is to use a similar design to the CFM Shadow (Foam core and fiberglass spars, ribs and ailerons. Probably using Celotex Light/Ultralight(?) covering.
*2nd upper wing will be a 'V' similar to a Pitts, for ordinary use, while a Hershey Bar-type will be for more historic representations.
*Empty and loaded CGs must be aft of the Main Landing Gear center-line. Wing placement will be based on maintaining that, rather than a strict historical representation.

(Numerous parts not shown)

 

[Lars Odeen]

It's a pretty airplane, for whatever that's worth coming from someone who knows little about aircraft design. I've been following your project with great interest.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

It's a pretty airplane, for whatever that's worth coming from someone who knows little about aircraft design. I've been following your project with great interest.

Thank you. I have tried to be true to the profile and general design attributes, though it is going to have major differences.

The history behind it and leading to today is important. There are few women that have influenced aircraft design, much less the history of aviation. I have other design ideas, but this one has educational value for a far wider audience.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

Got the refi on the farm finished. Within the next 2-3 weeks, I'll have a 12 X 32 portable delivered, to become my workshop. Too many other things going on to know when I'll actually be able to start on the fuselage, but, for best weight and balance, I'll build it first, then worry about wing placement.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

... and, life happens...

The building that will eventually be my shop has to be finished-out as an apartment for my youngest daughter and her husband until they can get a place of their own. They've been living at his Dad's place, but he's an alcoholic, mean drunk and wigging out.

Once things settle back down, I'll make a temporary 2x4 and plastic paint-booth type shop space in the back carport and start over.

Still going to get the majority of my tool-up done, just keep them in the old, crap 'shop' until they're actually in use.

Why not build in the old, 'crap' shop? Not enough room to build in.

(sigh)... It is what it is.

 

[Tiger Tim]

That’s fair, life does get in the way. In the meantime you can gather up stuff like wheels, any instruments, an engine, etc. so all are ready to roll when you need them.

 

[J.L. Frusha]

Probably use wheels, tires and no air foam-rubber inserts for a beach bike, for the main landing gear. KISS principle.