Crashes in the News - Thread

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bmcj

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I think some of the problem is more related to ego. There has been a steady increase, I believe, in disregard for law. Just drive the highway for awhile and watch the scofflaws go. And that has its roots in the whole self-esteem thing that has been preached in schools and homes for a couple of generations. Self esteem is one of those things that is valuable but very easily overdone, just like aspirin, and kids can grow up thinking that they really are little princes and princesses and that they are #1 and they will let everyone know it.

So now we have guys who think they are better pilots than they are, a huge anti-authority attitude, and a general dumbing-down of training and grading because the bar is supposedly set too high and people don't want to work to reach it. Employers are constantly amazed at the illiteracy of some high-school grads now. I was shocked enough back in the '80s at that sort of thing and it sure hasn't got any better.
Excellent point! I thought it was just the drivers in my town that we're getting bad, but I guess it's a more universal problem. I don't necessarily judge someone who skirts just outside of the driving rules as long as it has no impact on others, but what I have seen lately is a vast multitude of drivers now who scoff at the rules and make drastic moves for their own convenience despite the fact that they are endangering others and negatively impacting the flow of traffic.

I suppose that mindset probably makes its way into aviation too.
 

N8053H

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I think some of the problem is more related to ego. There has been a steady increase, I believe, in disregard for law. Just drive the highway for awhile and watch the scofflaws go. And that has its roots in the whole self-esteem thing that has been preached in schools and homes for a couple of generations. Self esteem is one of those things that is valuable but very easily overdone, just like aspirin, and kids can grow up thinking that they really are little princes and princesses and that they are #1 and they will let everyone know it.

So now we have guys who think they are better pilots than they are, a huge anti-authority attitude, and a general dumbing-down of training and grading because the bar is supposedly set too high and people don't want to work to reach it. Employers are constantly amazed at the illiteracy of some high-school grads now. I was shocked enough back in the '80s at that sort of thing and it sure hasn't got any better.
I believe this effects women just as much if not more then "guys".
 

bmcj

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Just curious Ron, in 2008 in Titusville, FL, there was a crash involving a landing Velocity and a taxiing RV-8. Would that be categorized as a mid-air collision? Or something else?
Probably not the way it is, but should be...

If the accident was caused by the flying plane, I would call it a flying accident.

If the accident was caused by the taxiing aircraft, I would call it a taxi accident.
 
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Wanttaja

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Just curious Ron, in 2008 in Titusville, FL, there was a crash involving a landing Velocity and a taxiing RV-8. Would that be categorized as a mid-air collision? Or something else?
I have a "Taxi Accident" category which this would nominally be entered as. Part of the difficulty in doing my kind of analysis, though, is making exactly this type of decision. Trying to maintain some consistency is hard, especially when there are years separating looking at two different accidents. I do record secondary causes on complex cases. Over time, I do re-review accidents and occasionally change my decision.

I'll take a look at my database when I get home tonight, and see how I scored that one. Or re-scored it. :)

Ron Wanttaja
 

Dan Thomas

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I believe this effects women just as much if not more then "guys".
As an instructor I found the ladies to be more careful with the airplane and much less likely to take stupid chances when flying. Teststerone levels have a lot to do with the difference in male and female behavior, at least when they're young.
 

Turd Ferguson

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As an instructor I found the ladies to be more careful with the airplane and much less likely to take stupid chances when flying.
My experience has been one extreme to the other. I have trained some women were were very good pilots, including my wife. On the other hand, there was 1 or 2 that I was scared for- as they were not in possession of the big picture required to scare themselves.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Probably not the way it is, but should be...

If the accident was caused by the flying plane, I would call it a flying accident.

If the accident was caused by the taxiing aircraft, I would call it a taxi accident.
It's still hard to call in this specific accident. Could say the taxiing RV-8 caused the crash by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or; The Velocity caused it cause they were flying down the taxiway.

I just know it was an awful crash, hope to never see/hear of anything like that again.
 

N8053H

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My experience has been one extreme to the other. I have trained some women were were very good pilots, including my wife. On the other hand, there was 1 or 2 that I was scared for- as they were not in possession of the big picture required to scare themselves.

Something like this women.

[video=youtube;fjrxfrr7oE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjrxfrr7oE8[/video]
 
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Turd Ferguson

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I have seen that video but don't have any information to form an opinion one way or the other. Don't know if she received any training or not and if so, what was the quality of the training.

The gal in the Cirrus at HOU definitely had training but was in way over her head. The demands of the environment exceeded her abilities by a large margin which gives the illusion she wasn't able to perform much better than the gal in this video.
 

N8053H

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I would say the quality of training this lady received was nil to none. But the point, how many reading this post would even climb into a single seat with the amount of knowledge this woman had in controlling an airplane? I believe most of us value life more then this and do not want to be a statistic.
 

Victor Bravo

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The ultralight crash LOOKS like it had something to do with a control cable or pushrod coming loose. The airplane was behaving like the control stick came loose. Wafting around in circles like that aimlessly makes me smell a control system issue much more than a pilot who did not know how to fly.

In the homebuilt world, let's please all remember that most "normal" airplanes can USUALLY be controlled and steered to a safe landing spot using the rudder only, and anything past that is gravy. Then let's try like hell to prevent ourselves from having to use that knowledge!
 

Wanttaja

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That's true and homebuilts tend to congregate at the same locations so I'm sure that increases the likelyhood of a homebuilt/homebuilt collision.

Just curious Ron, in 2008 in Titusville, FL, there was a crash involving a landing Velocity and a taxiing RV-8. Would that be categorized as a mid-air collision? Or something else?
I checked, and I did count that as a mid-air. MIA08FA070A & B. This is one of those that's arguable as either a mid-air or a taxi accident.

"The accident, an on-ground collision between two airplanes at a non-towered airport, occurred when the lead airplane in a flight of four RV-8s, which had landed and exited the runway, was struck by a Velocity not associated with the flight. Witnesses stated that the flight of four RV-8s announced their intentions to land in formation on Runway 15 over the radio and on the same frequency that the Velocity announced its intention to conduct a straight in approach to Runway 15. The Velocity arrived on final just behind the fourth RV-8, and touched down on the runway close to the approach end. The Velocity then drifted left off the runway and onto the grass. It passed to the left of the three trailing RV-8s that were still on the runway, and struck the lead RV-8, which had cleared the runway to the left on a taxiway in the vicinity of the departure end of the runway. At some point prior to the collision, engine power on the Velocity increased. Examination of the Velocity did not reveal any evidence of preimpact mechanical failures or malfunctions, and the weather in the area was conducive for visual flight rules operations."

Ron Wanttaja
 

StarJar

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I checked, and I did count that as a mid-air. MIA08FA070A & B. This is one of those that's arguable as either a mid-air or a taxi accident.

"The accident, an on-ground collision between two airplanes at a non-towered airport, occurred when the lead airplane in a flight of four RV-8s, which had landed and exited the runway, was struck by a Velocity not associated with the flight. Witnesses stated that the flight of four RV-8s announced their intentions to land in formation on Runway 15 over the radio and on the same frequency that the Velocity announced its intention to conduct a straight in approach to Runway 15. The Velocity arrived on final just behind the fourth RV-8, and touched down on the runway close to the approach end. The Velocity then drifted left off the runway and onto the grass. It passed to the left of the three trailing RV-8s that were still on the runway, and struck the lead RV-8, which had cleared the runway to the left on a taxiway in the vicinity of the departure end of the runway. At some point prior to the collision, engine power on the Velocity increased. Examination of the Velocity did not reveal any evidence of preimpact mechanical failures or malfunctions, and the weather in the area was conducive for visual flight rules operations."

Ron Wanttaja
Seems possible, if not probable, that the Velocity went to the left to avoid the RV's in front of it. Nothing like a discussion within a discussion, but maybe a lesson in spacing.
EDIT: As far as a flight or ground accident; the spacing may have allowed for a non collision in flight, but canards are known for high speed rollouts, which maybe changed everything quickly. Just guessing. Good luck on catagorizing it..:-(
EDIT; I would say FLIGHT for the Velocity, because it started before touchdown, and even during a botched confused go around.
As for the RV, just pure bad luck.
 
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Turd Ferguson

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I checked, and I did count that as a mid-air. MIA08FA070A & B. This is one of those that's arguable as either a mid-air or a taxi accident.

"The accident, an on-ground collision between two airplanes at a non-towered airport, occurred when the lead airplane in a flight of four RV-8s, which had landed and exited the runway, was struck by a Velocity not associated with the flight. Witnesses stated that the flight of four RV-8s announced their intentions to land in formation on Runway 15 over the radio and on the same frequency that the Velocity announced its intention to conduct a straight in approach to Runway 15. The Velocity arrived on final just behind the fourth RV-8, and touched down on the runway close to the approach end. The Velocity then drifted left off the runway and onto the grass. It passed to the left of the three trailing RV-8s that were still on the runway, and struck the lead RV-8, which had cleared the runway to the left on a taxiway in the vicinity of the departure end of the runway. At some point prior to the collision, engine power on the Velocity increased. Examination of the Velocity did not reveal any evidence of preimpact mechanical failures or malfunctions, and the weather in the area was conducive for visual flight rules operations."

Ron Wanttaja
Ron - thanks for sharing your methodology. I appreciate it.
 

mcrae0104

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We also live in an age where people have less education in many aspects of aviation, and people nowdays seem to have a lot less reverence for old traditional values, looking out for the community as much as you look out for yourself, etc. The basic airmanship competence of a brand new private pilot is nowhere near what it was in the 70's, which was nowhere near what it was in the 40's for that matter.
While it may be true that basic airmanship is on the decline (a debatable, if difficult to prove, point), the information age is an interesting paradox. Never in history have so many pilots had so much information and so many training opportunities at their fingertips.
 

BBerson

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Actually, I think Choppergirl would (or could) teach herself with carefully preplanned small hops of a foot or so flying down a long runway. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING SELF TEACHING HERE.
But it could be done. In fact, even a private pilot must self teach this way in a VJ-24 because there is no other option on a first solo in any single seater.

It helps greatly that Choppergirl has flown with her Dad. The worst case would be to try and sight see on the first flight and lose control. Choppergirl doesn't need to get over that first gasp experience of flying and could pay attention to keeping it level.
In fact, lots of ultralight pilots have learned solo. Usually with an instructor on the ground shouting commands into a radio.

It is unfortunate that ultralight rides are prohibited. A few rides would help immensely.
The best plan, I think, would be to find a local pilot with a Cub and take some flights and see how hard it is. Any current pilot, not an instructor.
 
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