Crashes in the News - Thread

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by choppergirl, Jun 8, 2016.

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  1. Jun 10, 2016 #81

    don january

    don january

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    There is three reason's I 'll do a "go around" 1- traffic on runway. 2- uncomfortable with approach. 3- flash back's of Crashes in the new's from this sight:roll:
     
  2. Jun 10, 2016 #82

    Lucrum

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    I couldn't say with authority either, but wouldn't be shocked to find out it's less attention than say a 747 blowing up midair.
     
  3. Jun 10, 2016 #83

    Dan Thomas

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  4. Jun 10, 2016 #84

    Wanttaja

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    Of the 43 homebuilts involved in midairs in my database, 14 struck other homebuilts (e.g., seven midairs). Looks like 4-5 of the cases involved formation flight. Over a 17-year period, that's not too bad....

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  5. Jun 10, 2016 #85

    StarJar

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    When there is a crash, sometimes a thread is started. Maybe this could serve as a place for comments, questions, or discussion, without starting individual threads.?
    Edit; Hmm that's weird, I just realized that was basically of the original post.
     
  6. Jun 10, 2016 #86

    mcrae0104

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    Once you're dead, you're dead. Once you are dead, does it really matter how you got there (crossing the bridge, flying under the bridge, what have you)? If it does matter to you, homebuiltphilosophicalconstructs.com is probably of interest to you. See you on the other side. Or not.
     
  7. Jun 10, 2016 #87

    bmcj

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    Then that makes two of us because that's not what I said either. I said that they would rather accept the additional risk involved in their hobby (in our case, flying) rather than give it up. I didn't say anything about someone wanting to die.

    I'm sure we're probably both on the same page, but expressing it differently.
     
  8. Jun 10, 2016 #88

    radfordc

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    It's interesting to consider the concept of accepting some risk in return for some reward. It's really the basis of everything we do in life, whether we are Caspar Milquetoast or Evel Knievel. Just flying adds risk to our life, but we all gladly accept it. For some it's not quite enough to just fly, so they accept even more risk by building and testing their own flying machines. Then if that's not enough they really pile on some more risks by putting those homemade flying machines through the stress and strain of aerobatics, racing, etc.

    Who's to say what risks are acceptable for any one person other than themselves? Someone says that what we do is "pure stupidity" while we say it's the thing that brings meaning and joy to our life.
     
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  9. Jun 10, 2016 #89

    RJW

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    Don’t worry about it radfordc. Pilots telling other pilots that what they do is dangerous? Really? Sheesh. Some people really think they have direct access to TRUTH—for everyone.

    Rob
     
  10. Jun 10, 2016 #90

    BJC

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    I think that you may not have understood what radfordc wrote. I think that he is right on target.


    BJC
     
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  11. Jun 10, 2016 #91

    bmcj

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    I agree. I think radfordc was saying exactly the same thing as RJW, that it is up to each pilot to decide what he wants to do and whether the personal risk is acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
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  12. Jun 10, 2016 #92

    Dan Thomas

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    It might not matter to the dead one, but it matters to those still trying to maintain the freedom to fly. When some guy does something stupid in a "home-made" airplane and kills some folks on the ground or does a lot of expensive damage to a bridge or building, guess what happens to the freedom to build and fly?
     
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  13. Jun 10, 2016 #93

    Victor Bravo

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    I'm late to this party, and I had assumed the most recent page would be dealing with the Cirrus that a lady just just crashed at Hobby airport in TX, killing her, her husband, and another person. I was completely prepared to start bellowing and arguing about a new rule requiring the first 100 hours of post-checkride PIC time being essentially restricted to a non-complex aircraft with a cruise speed of under 120 knots, etc. And a new FAR imprisoning the entire sales and marketing department at Cirrus.

    But I see that the last page or two of the thread is more concerned with accepting risks and trade-off against rewards. So, on that note, I'd have to agree with the ability of pilots to balance their own risk-reward equation and win or lose accordingly. However, I do feel strongly that this equation has changed (or must change) somewhat to reflect a different age in general aviation. Myself and others have commented before that we live in an age now where any accidental crash has the potential to harm general aviation and affect everyone else's ability to fly a small aircraft. That was not the case in 1978 when I got my license. We also live in an age where people have less education in many aspects of aviation, and people nowdays seem to have a lot less reverence for old traditional values, looking out for the community as much as you look out for yourself, etc. The basic airmanship competence of a brand new private pilot is nowhere near what it was in the 70's, which was nowhere near what it was in the 40's for that matter.

    So for whatever my bellowing is worth, the fact that a stupid decision or incompetence in an airplane now has the potential to kill far more than just the people in the airplane, means that the effort to combat that bad decision-making and/or incompetent airmanship now has to be increased commensurately. It's not fair to prevent people from managing their own risks, especially if they have taken the time to develop reasonable skills (learning aerobatics, practicing 'nap of the earth', formation flying, etc). We have to find a way to reduce these risks without reducing the freedom and latitude that we have. The only way I can think of to accomplish that is to increase the quality of pilot skill and judgment. Not more electronic gizmos, not idiot-proof airplanes, and not ballistic parachutes.

    Bellow switch off.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
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  14. Jun 10, 2016 #94

    Dan Thomas

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    I think some of the problem is more related to ego. There has been a steady increase, I believe, in disregard for law. Just drive the highway for awhile and watch the scofflaws go. And that has its roots in the whole self-esteem thing that has been preached in schools and homes for a couple of generations. Self esteem is one of those things that is valuable but very easily overdone, just like aspirin, and kids can grow up thinking that they really are little princes and princesses and that they are #1 and they will let everyone know it.

    So now we have guys who think they are better pilots than they are, a huge anti-authority attitude, and a general dumbing-down of training and grading because the bar is supposedly set too high and people don't want to work to reach it. Employers are constantly amazed at the illiteracy of some high-school grads now. I was shocked enough back in the '80s at that sort of thing and it sure hasn't got any better.
     
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  15. Jun 10, 2016 #95

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    That's true and homebuilts tend to congregate at the same locations so I'm sure that increases the likelyhood of a homebuilt/homebuilt collision.

    Just curious Ron, in 2008 in Titusville, FL, there was a crash involving a landing Velocity and a taxiing RV-8. Would that be categorized as a mid-air collision? Or something else?
     
  16. Jun 10, 2016 #96

    BBerson

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    Driverless cars are expected to reduce fatal accidents to near zero, according to the "experts".
    Could be the future for aviation also. No training needed
    Maybe single seat aircraft over rural fields will be excempt.
     
  17. Jun 10, 2016 #97

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    I don't see it like that at all. I learned a long time ago one does not have to accept higher risk just to fly a plane. I've worked pretty hard with regard to continuing education, training and practice so that flying does not add risk to my life. While GA flying as a whole is roughly risk equivalent to riding a motorcycle, those odds do not apply to everyone that gets in a GA airplane.
    For example, there is a high risk that a GA accident at night will be fatal. Not for me because I don't fly in a GA airplane after dark. Risk eliminated. I don't fly under bridges. Risk associated with doing that - eliminated. I don't continue VFR flight into IFR conditions. Risk eliminated. If I can't eliminate the risk, I mitigate it to the extent possible. If I can't do that, I may choose to scrub the mission. Not so fixated on the reward that I blindly accept a higher level of risk. Somebody with 100 hrs, a flight review every 2 yrs and "don't tell me what to do attitude?" Yea, they are accepting a much higher level of risk for their perceived reward.

    While I'm flying at work, the statistical risk is extremely low. People driving their car on the road below are at greater risk of injury or fatality, according to the stats. So as long as I do my job correctly, I'm in no more danger than when sitting in my easy chair at home. If I can't maintain that level of safety, I don't go. The airline backs me up.
     
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  18. Jun 10, 2016 #98

    bmcj

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    Uh oh... Better be careful! You can't say something like that in this neighborhood without fearing for your well being. :gig:
     
  19. Jun 10, 2016 #99

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    Having just heard the audio on TV this am, I am speechless. While maybe jail time isn't the answer, some issues need to be addressed here. Wow.
     
  20. Jun 10, 2016 #100

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    Yea, I notice they stop their claim just short of perfection. The Titanic was unsinkable too.
     

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