Crashes in the News - Thread

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jedi

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Bank looks steeper (to me) on LOC jet than on leading aircraft. Speed also looked like like LOC craft was attempting to overtake.
I am no expert here and can only observe the videos. I am just looking to see if others who were there agree or disagree.
 

rv6ejguy

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I watched a couple of feeds on this. Just prior to the incident at slow playback you can see several short puffs of white smoke from the engine, then a rapid loss of speed as the black plane closes quickly, a couple more puffs of smoke, then Hogue pulls hard, cuts the course inside, appears to pull harder while rolling right and very nearly collides with the black plane, just passing behind at a massive tangent. Engine problem? Compressor stall? Bird strike? At that speed, he pulled massive G given the rapid deviation. I agree with Toobuilder, seems G-LOC likely.
 

Psycho18th

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We taught this a lot in low altitude step down training. An over bank of 10 degrees, from about 90 to about 100 degrees of bank is a tough recovery. At 500’/500kts where we operated, you have about 3 seconds to recognize the descent, roll the wings, and pull before you hit the ground. An inexperienced low level jet pilot’s reaction is often to pull harder or not reduce bank less than 90 and will hit the ground. Especially when looking at a wingmen/threat, in this case maybe a competitor aircraft, it’s a tough spot. No GLOC required, though operations at high G, as the visual acuity lessens, this scenario is even harder. I don’t know squat about air racing civilian jets, just observations about flying small fast jets down low.
 

rsrguy3

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Like Ross, I wondered about control system damages from compressor failure as it looked like he could not roll right.. but the l29 has stout pushrod control actuation, so, even if he lost an aileron the lift generated by the left wing and a downward deflected left aileron would have rolled the plane upright....
Psycho, makes solid sense as well.
Still the simplest answer is usually the correct one... G induced loss of consciousness.
 

Bill-Higdon

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There was also a video from the infield. I’ll try to find it again.

EDIT:
Not the full length on I mentioned, but this is from the infield.

Juan Browen on this crash
 
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Toobuilder

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I saw the overtake, the red jet roll up and away from the course (as if pulling out of the race) and then another near 180 roll back to the inside (as if to re establish the race line). The last pull to the race line was noticably a high G affair, and after that it simply descended relatively gently to the ground (as if the pilot was incapacitated). So basically, a hard right, unload, a 180 to the left, and a BIG G, then unloaded to the ground.
 

Victor Bravo

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Juan Browne's guess (that the pilot saw he was about to cut the pylon, zig'ed out to get on the legal side of the pylon, then zag'ed back in to get back onto the course - but pulled way too hard) makes a lot of sense. That at least provides a motive for the abrupt maneuvering and the pilot's acceptance of the additional risk. But it is of course all speculation at this point. My condolences to the family and friends, and to the extended family of the entire air racing world.
 
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AdrianS

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The G-load was not shown on the video, except "Zero G" was displayed when it was in free-fall.

The (probably) correct speed and altitude were displayed until near the end; I think chute deployment threw it off.

Ron Wanttaja

Update on the ejected capsule - it peaked at 15G. So not fatal to occupants, but injury likely.
 

wktaylor

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RE the Mid-air collision between Cessna 172 and Sonex Xenos motorglider near Longmont, Colorado, USA this morning.
Initial reports of 3 fatalities were updated to 4 dead at the scene...

Is it my imagination... or has there been a significant increase in the number of GA mid-air collisions in the vicinity of airports, this last year [Oct21 to Sep22]?
 

rsrguy3

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I'm gen x. I seem to recall gobs and gobs of ga activity in the 70 80 and 90 decades... they managed without adsb, and now we have it and we still have issues. One (me) has to wonder if those previous generations had more skill and more common sense as well as sa and risk tolerance. I suspect 3 separate generations of aviators raised on aviation in the shadow of war had a much better grasp of mechanics, safety and aero than current generations.

Growing up and flying with dad, I remember well getting a thump on the back of the head for not flying outside the cockpit. Are to many of our tribe buried in electronics inside of the cockpit?
 

challenger_II

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I'm gen x. I seem to recall gobs and gobs of ga activity in the 70 80 and 90 decades... they managed without adsb, and now we have it and we still have issues. One (me) has to wonder if those previous generations had more skill and more common sense as well as sa and risk tolerance. I suspect 3 separate generations of aviators raised on aviation in the shadow of war had a much better grasp of mechanics, safety and aero than current generations.

Growing up and flying with dad, I remember well getting a thump on the back of the head for not flying outside the cockpit. Are to many of our tribe buried in electronics inside of the cockpit?
I believe I LIKE your Dad! :)
From personal observation, there are quite a few airplane operators are guilty of being too
absorbed by electronic gadgetry inside the cockpit, and not paying attention to what is happening
outside the aircraft.
 

mcrae0104

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RE the Mid-air collision between Cessna 172 and Sonex Xenos motorglider near Longmont, Colorado, USA this morning.
Initial reports of 3 fatalities were updated to 4 dead at the scene...


Is it my imagination... or has there been a significant increase in the number of GA mid-air collisions in the vicinity of airports, this last year [Oct21 to Sep22]?
That may be; I don't know. I fly often in the area of this accident. The traffic has definitely increased over the last ten years, and the last couple of years in particular. There is a lot of GA traffic out of BJC (class D) to the south as well as a couple of training areas and a number of airports in the vicinity. In my experience, very few folks announce themselves (let alone even bother to listen) to the training area or airport frequencies when just passing through. It's a problem. We had several folks from our chapter doing Young Eagles flights right there at the time of the accident.
 

wktaylor

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RE the Blue Origin capsule abort... which induced ~15-Gs.

When the crew is fully belted into the reclined, fully-supporting seats [couches], going from +3-Gs to sudden-onset +15-Gs will be a 'helluva-rough-ride', but tolerable, for healthy individuals... no injuries are expected.

RSGuy.3.. "Not Sat." You care to elaborate on these 2 words?
 

D Hillberg

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RE the Blue Origin capsule abort... which induced ~15-Gs.

When the crew is fully belted into the reclined, fully-supporting seats [couches], going from +3-Gs to sudden-onset +15-Gs will be a 'helluva-rough-ride', but tolerable, for healthy individuals... no injuries are expected.

RSGuy.3.. "Not Sat." You care to elaborate on these 2 words?
Diaper Loading in 15 Gs . . . Todays before launch meal is Taco Bell...
 
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