Crashes in the News - Thread

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Bille Floyd

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Bille doesn't have any facts....but he certainly has an opinion. Truly a "man of the internet".

Nope --- I always have a Back-Up plan , and always try to
reduce the times when I'm, just depending on Luck ; something
you should consider sir !!

Bottom line is that , at no point ---
can anyone totally count on their ICE , to stay running ; and
knowing that , perhaps developing strategies , to insure
continued survival , should be in order ?

Those are , "my Facts" (.)

That guy was just Fricken Lucky , and a bunch of people
could have bin killed ; when there was an empty field and
an airport just a mile away. SOOOoo Why didn't he keep
enough altitude to make it , if the engine quit ?

Bille
 
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Joined
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How did it turn out ? All walked away . I don't know all the facts but coulda , woulda , shoulda means diddly squat . If ever faced with that same situation , those results will be fine with me , and I don't give a Fat Frogs Azz what anybody thinks . All you folks that (coulda , woulda , shoulda) done better , I want to see your interview if this happens to you . By that , it means that you either got lucky or you were good , don't matter . All walk away an that is what counts . And that's been , not bin . 🐒
 

Hephaestus

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I often wonder about this one as I'm prone to "I follow roads" - however it's the speed differential that kills right? I wonder if it's better to hit the highway where you're in the same speed range versus the side road / parking lot... But there's of course questions about which scenario is worse in that instant.

But it's also why I'm preferring to have a airframe parachute as backup; take the speed out of the equation as long as you don't end up on a highway ;)
 

D Hillberg

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Nope --- I always have a Back-Up plan , and always try to
reduce the times when I'm, just depending on Luck ; something
you should consider sir !!

Bottom line is that , at no point ---
can anyone totally count on their ICE , to stay running ; and
knowing that , perhaps developing strategies , to insure
continued survival , should be in order ?

Those are , "my Facts" (.)

That guy was just Fricken Lucky , and a bunch of people
could have bin killed ; when there was an empty field and
an airport just a mile away. SOOOoo Why didn't he keep
enough altitude to make it , if the engine quit ?

Bille
Corona? No fields worth the risk. buried construction debris, Sink holes, very soft earth, palm trees, poles,

Prado basin full of snags West,
Cheese factory and ceramic factory East with wires,
South is built up industry and North is more basin and homes.... When the waters rise you get covered boat ramps.
You do have a golf course dead south at the 45 but the last mid air I saw the debris killed a car dealer at his desk. and played the Ninth hole...But Oh well,
Beats the guy who landed short at Oxnard after calling an emergency and asking for extended down wind as he started dead center of the runway at altitude...Through Victoria Ave up a curb and making a Mooney sized hole in the fence..... He did good too
 

Bille Floyd

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Sep 26, 2019
Messages
797
Corona? No fields worth the risk. buried construction debris, Sink holes, very soft earth, palm trees, poles,
...
Like Victor B said ; the Corona airport was .1 miles shorter
glide than the field ; So tell me why the pilot didn't hold
enough altitude to make the airport , (one mile away) if
things went South , and his engine died ?
Tell Me ; I wanna know what I'm missing here ??

I will admit , that I fly gliders and always consider
places to land ; but I also have a 1,000 hours of ultralight
time, and I keep the same strategy for an Exit-plan
at all times.

I told this story before :
Was heading South out of Bolder City , heading to
lake Havasu, with a pilot in command, flying a
Piper Archer . We were 10K ASL over Lake Mohave
when I asked :
"Where Ya gonna set her down ; if the engine dies" ?
He replied :
"In the Lake".

The fricken Clueless Freak had No clue that there
was an abandon airstrip, directly across the lake
from cottonwood cove ; I had researched it long before
ever attempting an XC flight from Vegas.
I never got in an airplane with that guy again.

A little bit of forethought, on your flight planning ; it
may save your life . Also (it ain't that difficult).

Anything else ?

I'll quit now ; don't like talking to the wall. :(

Bille
 

Victor Bravo

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SOOOoo Why didn't he keep
enough altitude to make it , if the engine quit ?
Because he was in, or departing, or approaching the traffic pattern.

There also may have been altitude restrictions (airspace) or weather (cloud level) where he was not able to fly around at 4000 feet in that vicinity.

None of this will make sense to pilots who don't fly around a major city. There are times and places where the (highly unpleasant) freeway is unfortunately the best option. There are other times and places where you are given several good options, golf courses, railroad yard with no cars or houses, etc.

Another factor is that if you can just about glide back to the airprot, but if it turns out you don't make it... you're into industrial buildings, houses, lumberyards, etc. So you're in a position where if you are wrong and your glide ratio is 5.2 to 1 instead of 6 to 1... you're in the lobby of the Fender Guitar building, or a used car lot.

Or... you can put it on a freeway with a fair chance of survival. What do you decide in that split-second to reduce the odds of getting killed?
 

D Hillberg

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very low low low earth orbit
Like Victor B said ; the Corona airport was .1 miles shorter
glide than the field ; So tell me why the pilot didn't hold
enough altitude to make the airport , (one mile away) if
things went South , and his engine died ?
Tell Me ; I wanna know what I'm missing here ??

I will admit , that I fly gliders and always consider
places to land ; but I also have a 1,000 hours of ultralight
time, and I keep the same strategy for an Exit-plan
at all times.

I told this story before :
Was heading South out of Bolder City , heading to
lake Havasu, with a pilot in command, flying a
Piper Archer . We were 10K ASL over Lake Mohave
when I asked :
"Where Ya gonna set her down ; if the engine dies" ?
He replied :
"In the Lake".

The fricken Clueless Freak had No clue that there
was an abandon airstrip, directly across the lake
from cottonwood cove ; I had researched it long before
ever attempting an XC flight from Vegas.
I never got in an airplane with that guy again.

A little bit of forethought, on your flight planning ; it
may save your life . Also (it ain't that difficult).

Anything else ?

I'll quit now ; don't like talking to the wall. :(

Bille
Meadowlark airfield - Closed - You just hit a Ralphs Grocery Store
Abandoned ? What's parked on the runway? D-8 bulldozer . . .
 

radfordc

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Messages
1,568
Another factor is that if you can just about glide back to the airprot, but if it turns out you don't make it... you're into industrial buildings, houses, lumberyards, etc. So you're in a position where if you are wrong and your glide ratio is 5.2 to 1 instead of 6 to 1... you're in the lobby of the Fender Guitar building, or a used car lot.
That happened to a guy in Cali last year as I recall. Tried to make the runway but ended up hitting a wire a few hundred feet short of the airport. A fatality.
 

radfordc

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Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,568
I will admit , that I fly gliders and always consider
places to land ; but I also have a 1,000 hours of ultralight
time, and I keep the same strategy for an Exit-plan
at all times.

Yeah, always have a plan A and a plan B....but **** happens and now your on plan C which happens to be a busy highway. Do the best you can and try to let everyone involved walk away. BTW, you have almost as much ultralight time as I do.
 

bmcj

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Fresno, California
About 1.1 miles, NNW of where the crash occurred ; there
is a Big giant Open Field .
I got a totally different opinion, of that pilot ; he exemplifies
the epitome of ineptitude.
I’m going to strongly disagree here. I’ve flown in and out of Corona Airport enough (and driven on Rincon Rd next to the field you pointed out) to know that the area in question would not be a friendly place to land. That field is in a flood plain and is either overgrown, plowed, or has levy structures placed to control flooding. There are also numerous power pole lines surrounding it. I think you would be lucky if you could find 1,000 feet of flat surface, and most likely unsuitably textured.

Add to that the greater overall area for any distance surrounding the airport is either developed or treed. I think the first report said he had just taken off, so he was probably working the pattern and not high enough to guarantee a safe return to the airport without stretching a glide over homes and businesses. The freeway might have been his best option. Not all airports offer a pattern with safe out landing options throughout the whole pattern. Also, when Corona gets busy, you might find yourself having to extend your downwind because of traffic ahead, leaving you well outside your glide range.
 
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N804RV

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Mount Vernon, WA
Going on the assumption that he is "working the pattern", RNWY 07 is right traffic. If he turn crosswind 300 feet below pattern altitude (where you're supposed to), that would put a 50 year old PA28 far enough east to be abeam his reported crash position.

But then, he should've had enough altitude to turn back (instead of continuing south toward hwy 91). Something is off. We don't have the whole story.

I, for one, am gonna wait for the NTSB final report on this one.
 

Bille Floyd

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Messages
797
Because he was in, or departing, or approaching the traffic pattern.

There also may have been altitude restrictions (airspace) or weather (cloud level) where he was not able to fly around at 4000 feet in that vicinity.

None of this will make sense to pilots who don't fly around a major city. There are times and places where the (highly unpleasant) freeway is unfortunately the best option. There are other times and places where you are given several good options, golf courses, railroad yard with no cars or houses, etc.

Another factor is that if you can just about glide back to the airprot, but if it turns out you don't make it... you're into industrial buildings, houses, lumberyards, etc. So you're in a position where if you are wrong and your glide ratio is 5.2 to 1 instead of 6 to 1... you're in the lobby of the Fender Guitar building, or a used car lot.

Or... you can put it on a freeway with a fair chance of survival. What do you decide in that split-second to reduce the odds of getting killed?

OK -- I get it now.
The strategies for flying over cities in an airplane , with
an engine ; they are much different than for flying over
the countryside in a glider .
I never even considered altitude restrictions that may
be in place for the pattern . :(

Bille
 

speedracer

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Messages
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I think Bille's point is to try to limit the time you spend while flying out of glide range of a reasonable place to make an emergency landing. I do this as I don't trust airplanes with my life. In 31 years I've had six forced landings in four different airplanes, two of them not mine. No wrecks. I watch people in the pattern at my home airport and more than 50% of them would have no hope of making the runway in case of an engine failure and the runway is "right there".
 

Victor Bravo

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I try to fly the way Bille Floyd is suggesting whenever possible. He's 100% correct in the intent and the reasoning behind it. People who fly gliders, hang gliders, sailplanes, etc. always have that nagging feeling in the back of their head.

I try to alter my course to remain within glide range of more decent areas when there's a choice. I keep myself aware of where the good fields or 'less catastrophic' locations are in the city areas where I am flying often. When I'm about to cross an area that is not safely landable, I have a good look at oil pressure, temp, and try to measure all those scientific seat of the pants vibrations (airplanes will talk to you often).

Essentially, I try to not be the pilot who's flying along 100% of the time without a clue..."fat, dumb, and happy".

Oh crap, I just looked in the mirror. Well, as Meat Loaf said... two out of three ain't bad.
 

Pops

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I was taught to play "what if" at all times. One time a friend and I was going on a trip in his C-172. Small clouds was just starting to form at our altitude. Noise level was starting to come down and we both looked at the tack as it was dropping at the same time and he pulled the carb heat on and we both said and pointed at the same time , " airport off our right wing tip".
 

wktaylor

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Hershey-bar long-wing Cherokee [6?].

Looks like the impact failed the right wing at the wing-root which tore-loose the RH wing leading-edge fuel tank. The airframe then veered-off the FW to the right and into a retaining wall.

Meanwhile... the 'liberated' fuel tank burst-open and [friction/sparks] produced the fuel-fireball behind the aircraft on the freeway. Fortune was kind that none of the autos behind the impact site were incinerated[?].
 
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