Crashes in the News - Thread

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Vigilant1

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The lithium batteries are more efficient at high discharge rates, so for equal "starting power" (generally depicted as PbEq or lead-acid equivalent amp-hours) the lithium is smaller, with less reserve capacity.

That "Pb-Eq" marketing term can be extremely misleading, and more than one builder/pilot has been surprised to find out that their new light-but-expensive "equivalent" LiFePO4 battery will power their avionics/EFI for a lot shorter time after a power failure than their old lead acid battery did.
More from a post by RV7Charlie here:
Any experience with Lithiumax start batteries?

Folks need to look at the discharge charts. They also need to consider the impact of a BMS failure/cutoff when thinking through alternator failure scenarios. There are times when flying that we just might not care about preserving battery life and instead want the battery to provide electrons down to 8 volts, and will be happy to buy a new one upon getting down safely.
 

Daleandee

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They also need to consider the impact of a BMS failure/cutoff when thinking through alternator failure scenarios. There are times when flying that we just might not care about preserving battery life and instead want the battery to provide electrons down to 8 volts, and will be happy to buy a new one upon getting down safely.

ThatoneThatoneThatone

This is my reasoning behind using the Odyssey PC-680 battery and accepting the weight penalty. Having a BMS shut off the battery power is not an option that I will ever consider.
 

AdrianS

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That "Pb-Eq" marketing term can be extremely misleading, and more than one builder/pilot has been surprised to find out that their new light-but-expensive "equivalent" LiFePO4 battery will power their avionics/EFI for a lot shorter time after a power failure than their old lead acid battery did.
More from a post by RV7Charlie here:
Any experience with Lithiumax start batteries?

Folks need to look at the discharge charts. They also need to consider the impact of a BMS failure/cutoff when thinking through alternator failure scenarios. There are times when flying that we just might not care about preserving battery life and instead want the battery to provide electrons down to 8 volts, and will be happy to buy a new one upon getting down safely.

We had this in the classic rally world. A lot of people switched to Li batteries for the weight, then found that an alternator failure (not uncommon) would leave them stranded mid-stage, where a lead-acid battery will keep the car going for a lot longer.
Ditto leaving the electrics powered up when the car is parked.

Add in the issues with jump starting, and several people I know went back to lead-acid.
 

Bill-Higdon

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Victor Bravo

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As a participant/"denizen" of that particular airport, I want to recommend/remind/request everyone to please refer to this event as a train crash, not an airplane crash. Big difference.

This was a "garden variety" forced landing incident where an airplane sustained repairable damage, and the pilot received minor injuries. That was and is the end of the aviation portion of this matter.

Just after the aviation incident, there was another incident. A high speed passenger train ignored two official emergency warnings (LAPD and FAA control tower), the train operator did not initiate any of the appropriate emergency protocols to slow or stop, and created a separate, high visibility, "major incident" by crashing through the aircraft as the cops pulled the pilot out.

The vehicle that was cut in half by the speeding Metrolink train could have been a car, a boat, a semi truck, an elderly grandmother's wheelchair, or a teenager's bicycle.
 
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radfordc

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As a participant/"denizen" of that particular airport, I want to recommend/remind/request everyone to please refer to this event as a train crash, not an airplane crash.

Some one might look at this plane with a broken wing, broken fuselage, collapsed gear, etc and think, "I believe it crashed".

crash.jpg
 

Victor Bravo

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Some one might look at this plane with a broken wing, broken fuselage, collapsed gear, etc and think, "I believe it crashed".

Yes, however the dramatic televised incident which is making all the rounds these days is video of a train crash. The airplane had stopped moving and everything about that event was done and over with for several minutes before the arrival of the train. People are trying to close down my home airport, and using this train event as the justification... even though nobody was seriously hurt and no non-aviation people were even mildly harmed.

Redirecting public opinion away form making airplanes look bad is more or less of a responsibility for all of us these days.
 

Bille Floyd

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...
People are trying to close down my home airport, and using this train event as the justification...
...

A few airplane crashes , like that ,here in Vegas because of engine
troubles ; what pisses me off is some would be a Non-event
if the pilot had circled the airport a few times to gain altitude
and still have a runway to set down on if the motor stopped running.
It's the most Basic of strategy, for any glider pilot ; always
have a place to set down , within your glide ratio.

Motor-heads ; there all the same ! HA !!

Bille
 

bmcj

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A few airplane crashes , like that ,here in Vegas because of engine
troubles ; what pisses me off is some would be a Non-event
if the pilot had circled the airport a few times to gain altitude
and still have a runway to set down on if the motor stopped running.
It's the most Basic of strategy, for any glider pilot ; always
have a place to set down , within your glide ratio.

Motor-heads ; there all the same ! HA !!

Bille
I’m sure (or at least I hope) that you are speaking tongue-in-cheek here. Even if he had planned to circle up, I believe the engine quit on his initial climb after takeoff. Maybe if he had been in a glider he could have continued climbing (I’ve noticed that a lot of city council people and other politicians can generate a good thermal when speaking out against airports) LOL. His choice of landing spots was severely limited by all of the houses that have built up around the airport; maybe we should shut the houses down.

Of course, if your post was purely tongue-in-cheek, then in the words of the late great Rosanne Rosannadanna… “NEVERMIND”.
 

speedracer

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A few airplane crashes , like that ,here in Vegas because of engine
troubles ; what pisses me off is some would be a Non-event
if the pilot had circled the airport a few times to gain altitude
and still have a runway to set down on if the motor stopped running.
It's the most Basic of strategy, for any glider pilot ; always
have a place to set down , within your glide ratio.

Motor-heads ; there all the same ! HA !!

Bille
Amen to that! At my airport at least half of the planes I see in the pattern have no chance whatsoever of making the runway if the engine quits.
 

Bille Floyd

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Amen to that! At my airport at least half of the planes I see in the pattern have no chance whatsoever of making the runway if the engine quits.

Tell that to ( bmcj ) ; the guy can't follow the basic context
in my post ! LOL

So tell me motor-heads ; what exactly is wrong with
keeping a landing aria , within your glide-ratio ?
And meanwhile ; more people die.

Bille
 

Turd Ferguson

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So tell me motor-heads ; what exactly is wrong with
keeping a landing aria , within your glide-ratio ?
And meanwhile ; more people die.
can you cite the most recent accident where someone's engine failed in the traffic pattern they they were not able to make the field? Better yet, an NTSB report that gives probable cause as "failing to stay within gliding distance of the runway at all times."
 

Bille Floyd

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can you cite the most recent accident where someone's engine failed in the traffic pattern they they were not able to make the field?...

@ the Turd
No sense in arguing with a closed minded fool . LOL
Here ; look it up yourself , (the first one is a Prime example)
for what i'm talking about !!


... A Las Vegas Fire Department official said it appears only the pilot is dead after a Piper Navajo twin-engine airplane crashed Thursday afternoon into a house on Jones Boulevard south of Cheyenne Avenue. ... He tried to return to the airport but crashed into a house a half mile short of Runway 7. ...

Would you like to know what is a few miles North of Cheynne and Jones Blvd ?
Yea --- Open Desert ; and the inconsiderate pilot
could'a crashed out there , and never involved people
or houses , in the city.

Bille
 
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Bille Floyd

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Just being Honest here :
If your hopping islands off the cost of Florida, or
flying over open aria in the desert or mountains , then
fly as low as ya want ; but if your taking some else life
in your hands , that did Not ask for the risk involved ,
then ya Owe it to them , to take some extra precautions.
3 to $5 extra fuel to gain some altitude ; that's not
asking much.

Bille
 

Bille Floyd

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For me, staying in tune.

Ron Wanttaja

Then do it where ya won't kill other people ; when ya screw-Up

Typical glider flight for me will last near 3-hours , and about
30% of that is spent within 20 to 100-ft AGL ,where Nobody
dies if i crash ; so lets talk some more about that staying in tune
crap !!

Bille
 

Toobuilder

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Amen to that! At my airport at least half of the planes I see in the pattern have no chance whatsoever of making the runway if the engine quits.

You are describing the FAA standard "stabilized approach" that has been taught for the last several decades. The half that CAN make the runway are rebels and outlaws from a bygone era.
 
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