Crashes in the News - Thread

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Rhino

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But in a world full of speculation and disinformation, a little bit of credibility is actually a bit of fresh air sometimes. N804RV is probably right. They did it to counter some of the inaccurate hype going around.
 

mcrae0104

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Some so-called "expert" , that I've never heard of, also posted a youtube video that went viral, and somewhat "muddied the waters" over what was known and what was assumed. I'd like to think the AOPA video was an attempt to reign in some of the skuttle-butt.
AOPA - - "Bringing credibility to speculation!"
Consistency check: one member says a viral YouTube video muddies the waters with assumptions vs. known facts; and further, that AOPA posted a video to correct the viral video. Then another member accuses AOPA of too much speculation. So is AOPA clearing up the scuttlebutt, or contributing to misinformation? Since so little specificity has been offered, we are left with the questions:

  1. To which viral video is @N804RV referring, and in what way did it muddy the waters? Please be specific. I have no axe to grid, but I am interested in learning from others' mistakes to be a safer pilot.
  2. What exactly is the speculation in which @Turd Ferguson accuses AOPA of engaging? I am neither a fan nor a critic of AOPA, but I did not detect an unreasonable degree of speculation in their video on the event.
 

dwalker

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Consistency check: one member says a viral YouTube video muddies the waters with assumptions vs. known facts; and further, that AOPA posted a video to correct the viral video. Then another member accuses AOPA of too much speculation. So is AOPA clearing up the scuttlebutt, or contributing to misinformation? Since so little specificity has been offered, we are left with the questions:

  1. To which viral video is @N804RV referring, and in what way did it muddy the waters? Please be specific. I have no axe to grid, but I am interested in learning from others' mistakes to be a safer pilot.
  2. What exactly is the speculation in which @Turd Ferguson accuses AOPA of engaging? I am neither a fan nor a critic of AOPA, but I did not detect an unreasonable degree of speculation in their video on the event.
Dan Gryder put out a video where he opines that the pilot was incapacitated, possibly from a recent covid vaccine shot or some other issue.

Jaun Brown put out a video saying it was spatial disorientation.
 

N804RV

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Dan Gryder put out a video where he opines that the pilot was incapacitated, possibly from a recent covid vaccine shot or some other issue.

Jaun Brown put out a video saying it was spatial disorientation.
Both cite "facts" not in evidence.

It seems to me the ASI video stuck to "what is known", and only speculated on what the accident investigators would likely focus on. But, that's just my opinion. You're entitled to your own.
 

dwalker

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Both cite "facts" not in evidence.

It seems to me the ASI video stuck to "what is known", and only speculated on what the accident investigators would likely focus on. But, that's just my opinion. You're entitled to your own.
I offered no opinion, just information. The AOPA video has as much "facts not in evidence" as either of the two privately made videos.
 

Rhino

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The difference I see is the AOPA doesn't attempt to establish any cause, or to eliminate possibilities without evidence. The Gryder video is total crap as far as I'm concerned because it accuses the AOPA of establishing a cause they never even remotely attempted to establish. They only said there was a potential for spatial disorientation, not that it was the cause, and they listed other possibilities as well, all quite plausible at this point. But they never attempted to declare anything as a definitive cause, or even a significant likelihood for that matter. Gryder on the other hand tries to establish cause as something there is absolutely zero evidence of, and excludes other possibilities as irrelevant. I wouldn't even consider his position to be logical conjecture. So he has absolutely zero credibility in my book. The Brown video seems to indicate a heavy suspicion towards spatial disorientation, but he never specifically touts it as the cause either. I saw no 'facts not in evidence' in the AOPA video, unless, like Gryder, you assume them to be stating a fact when they're only listing a possibility.
 

Vigilant1

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My opinion: AOPA's video presented the available information in a responsible way and properly framed/caveated their postulations/conjecture where they went beyond known fact.
Gryder was a lot less responsible or convincing.

On the bigger question of whether AOPA ASI should be issuing videos so soon after a crash: I think it just reflects the current reality:
1) Compared to 30 years ago, there's typically a lot more information available very soon after the crash today. Radar/GPS tracks, dashcam/doorbellcam/cell phone video of seemingly every inch of the globe, postings by (claimed?) eyewitnesses on social media, etc. Decades ago, there might be just a debris field and a grieving spouse being badgered by a reporter.
2) As Gryder points out, interest in these crashes is greatest when the news breaks. That's when his YouTube channel gets a lot of hits. If AOPA's ASI wants to expose a lot of people to the (limited) accurate information that does exist, they need to act early or else they let guys like Gryder establish the narrative and hope they can fix any misinformation later. Most folks will never see their later video.

I'd rather see AOPA and other responsible entities get the word out early and offer updates/corrections than have Gryder (and/or ignorant local newscasters via Kathryn's Report) blast out unchallenged incorrect info and uncaveated conjecture.
 
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Rhino

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We've transitioned to a world of instant, or near instant information. People base opinions on that information and some base analysis on it. Unfortunately, one thing that has not changed is that information available in the media is usually highly incomplete, and very often inaccurate, particularly on topics they aren't very familiar with, aviation being only one of those. We see many examples today of where these instant analyses and opinions can get us into trouble, sometimes serious trouble. At some point I expect the pendulum to swing back in the other direction to some extent as more people realize the inaccuracy and incompleteness of the massive amount of information they receive. But two questions remain. How long will that take, and what damage will be done in the interim, to aviation or numerous other interests. But now I'm starting to drift off topic, so........
 

proppastie

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added another video .....this could be as popular as the raptor videos......might need to be (or not) moved.
 

Victor Bravo

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I'm not president of Jan's fan club either, but it certainly does not seem that anything he did caused this wreck. Zenith slab sided airplanes make more noise than other airplanes when they are not flown straight. I have heard the oil canning myself in the one CH 701 flight I have had.
 

Geraldc

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Interesting fact that youtube has like and dislike counters.
Jan is way ahead on the likes.
 

proppastie

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two big guys full fuel.......if he was having control problems (diving etc.) maybe he had weight and balance issues? aileron control missing a nut is pretty bad, could easily jam the ailerons, it might have been nice to see the gouged metal where the head rubbed against or jammed against the floor......for some reason we do not have pictures of that. that a weight bag ended up under something when the aircraft flipped does not seem unexpected. the condition of the forward section after the crash could easily explain the bad engine control linkage in the photo.
 
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