# Crashes in the News - Thread

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#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Nice looking plane. I wonder if the pilot could feel the change in vibration levels that the camera detected around 0:45?

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
Twin engine airplane crashed into houses in San Diego area.

Nbcsandiego.com

NBC 7 San Diego
SANTEE
At Least Two Die in Santee Plane Crash That Destroys Pair of Homes

“Two structures were destroyed in the fire after the plane came down near Santana High School in Santee, and two or three others were damaged as well.”

“ A twin-engine Cessna C340 crashed Monday near the campus of Santana High School in Santee, killing at least two people, one of them a UPS worker, and destroying two homes, officials said.”

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Twin engine airplane crashed into houses in San Diego area.

Nbcsandiego.com

NBC 7 San Diego
SANTEE
At Least Two Die in Santee Plane Crash That Destroys Pair of Homes

“Two structures were destroyed in the fire after the plane came down near Santana High School in Santee, and two or three others were damaged as well.”

“ A twin-engine Cessna C340 crashed Monday near the campus of Santana High School in Santee, killing at least two people, one of them a UPS worker, and destroying two homes, officials said.”
I just listened to the audio from Socal Approach. Downright scary! https://archive.liveatc.net/ksan/KSAN-SOCAL-App-Dep-East-Oct-11-2021-1900Z.mp3

#### CAVU Mark

##### Active Member
The Santee crash is tragic. Pilot is dead as well as a UPS driver probably sitting in his truck thinking about his life.... tragic for both.

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
I heard a comment that it looked like a doctor inspired Vmc roll. Any comments. I have not seen a suitable video but understand the video is out there. Don't know about the Beech Bonanza V tail doctor theory.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
There's a security/doorbell cam of the C340-Santee coming out of the bottom of the clouds, steep nose down, in a turn to the right and high rate of speed ~200 mph. Plane completely intact, It impacts, there's a slight delay then fireball. He simply lost control. Not climbing when instructed (actually descending) is most likely somotogravic illusion. This looks similar to Ara Zobyan's loss of control.

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I heard a comment that it looked like a doctor inspired Vmc roll.
My doctor advises against Vmc rolls. I didn't know there were any who advocated them.

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
too many carbs?
No--I thought I was seeing a psychiatrist because I feared I was holding my nose too high, but he kept saying, "Push! Push! Push!" so I guess it turns out he was an obstetrician instead.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
No--I thought I was seeing a psychiatrist because I feared I was holding my nose too high, but he kept saying, "Push! Push! Push!" so I guess it turns out he was an obstetrician instead.
That's called having an attitude i.e "the position of your nose in reference to your horizon!"

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I just listened to the audio from Socal Approach. Downright scary! https://archive.liveatc.net/ksan/KSAN-SOCAL-App-Dep-East-Oct-11-2021-1900Z.mp3

I’m surprised.. This was a very level and fact based report, unlike the normal drivel you find in TV news.

#### wktaylor

##### Well-Known Member
My dad was a flight instructor for almost 40-years. He said kids and women were his best students since they were willing to listen, work and learn.

He was always wary of 'professional men' who brought with them an air of informed superiority... hard to get thru-their-thick skulls that they don't know everything... and that could kill them. But many became teachable with patience and professional nudges.

However he discovered that medical doctors/professionals not only brought an air of superiority, but arrogance and pride and 'know-it-all', into the cockpit. He passed-along several lucrative training 'opportunities' to other instructors. Over the years he heard that some of these doctors killed themselves and/or their families/colleagues in their expensive aircraft... doing 'stupid stuff 101'... way beyond their current skills and real maturity.

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I’m surprised.. This was a very level and fact based report, unlike the normal drivel you find in TV news.
Kathryn's Report has been around for awhile. They're kind of a "news aggregator" for aviation news and a great source for factual information about crashes in the news.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
My dad was a flight instructor for almost 40-years. He said kids and women were his best students since they were willing to listen, work and learn.

He was always wary of 'professional men' who brought with them an air of informed superiority... hard to get thru-their-thick skulls that they don't know everything... and that could kill them. But many became teachable with patience and professional nudges.

However he discovered that medical doctors/professionals not only brought an air of superiority, but arrogance and pride and 'know-it-all', into the cockpit. He passed-along several lucrative training 'opportunities' to other instructors. Over the years he heard that some of these doctors killed themselves and/or their families/colleagues in their expensive aircraft... doing 'stupid stuff 101'... way beyond their current skills and real maturity.
Was talking to my doctor and he said that him and another doctor was thinking of getting their pilot license and buying a Bonanza.
I told him what you just said about doctors are hard to teach because they think they "know it all" because they read a book about it.
Also Bonanza's are called doctors killers because of doctors over confidence and low skills.
Same for lawyers.

#### challenger_II

##### Well-Known Member
Oh, Beech has managed to get the Bonanza to keep its tail on, now days...
Still, and all, there are still some folks you just can't convince that yellow arc is there for a reason.

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#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Oh, Beech has manage to get the Bonanza to keep its tail on, now days...
Still, and all, there are still some folks you just can't convince that yellow arc is there for a reason.
In designing the JMR Special I was talking to Bob Barrows about the design and he was looking at the airplane and asking question. He pointed out a couple things that he thought was over designed a little and maybe I could have saved a little weight on that part. (no one builds a lighter EW than Bob Barrows). I told him I agree, but I'm trying to made it as strong as possible for some ham-fisted pilot. He said you can't every make it strong enough were someone can't tear it up.

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Too true.

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Too true.
Gee, I see those old movies, where the daring pilot rolls his Corsair into a tight split-S right from cruise formation. Just seems like my Bo ought to be able to do that too, dangit!

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Doctors tend to over focus and miss the big picture. Especially if they are surgeons. A friend helped with guidance with a friend Dr. Mostly it was to stop fixating on something because there are ten things more important than fixating 2 deg difference CHTs.

Bonanzas got their reputation because one thing a Dr has is disposable income. In the 60s a Bonanza was almost $100k; a nice house was$30k. They can buy better than their talent level at present. To me it’s all about practice. With the right training just about anyone can fly a SR71. Dr can get hold of a Bonanza before they have a license. I actually believe in training in something hard to fly, but you can’t be all huff in puff if I want you to scare yourself 20 times in your Pretty. If f you got money for a new G36, go buy an old 33C because we are going upside down and spinning it. You can’t be dainty if you want accelerated training, because you just asked for it than spending 700hrs in a 172.

I know plenty of good Dr pilots. I also know a few that wiped themselves out. They all
have lots of knowledge, but the looser they are, the better pilots they are. If they are stiff, they are stiff pilots; even if they have the money for a P-51. They end up with good training, but they can’t go past it if needed to draw a different conclusion.