Crashes in the News - Thread

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Victor Bravo

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I'm pretty sure all of us have plenty of things that are plenty embarrassing in our past, which have nothing to do with how well we do or don't fly today. I sure as hell do.

If the actor who once played Tarzan made a bad call, or was in over his head in a Citation 30 years later, and 6 or 7 people died because of it, it's not the highest class move for us to make jokes about it.

When Han Solo stuck his PT-22 in the golf course, and nobody got hurt bad, then by all means let's all of us smart-ass pundits have a field day with it.

There are even times when a pilot who's a real jackass or criminal kills himself (that's you, Dave Riggs), and we can make jokes about the Darwin Award.

But when a bunch of non-airplane people are lost, my vote is to take the high road.
 

wktaylor

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Victor Bravo You make an important point... It's easy to trash the pilot and make grave-yard jokes... laugh and smirk... at injuries and death... but it is intensely and deeply inappropriate.

The content of this thread is in-fact very serious. I have found body parts and smelled various forms of death... and worked with the pathologists to validate the injuries on the bodies in photos. Please have respect.

RE the USAF mishaps I've investigated with fatalities... and a few survivors with injuries...

I have witnessed the intense/deep pain/grief among the surviving family and friends, as they gather trying to get answers and help-each-other thru the awful days-weeks-months-years ahead.

Even a few accidents where the crew ejected and survived... I have seen the anguish and grief of the mechanics who serviced and 'owned' the jet while it was on the ground... the gut-punch is very real. AND is far worse when a favorite pilot or friend dies.

In one case an F-16 pilot survived ejection after a violent mid-air collision at 0400 over the north Pacific ocean... but barely survived hours of exposure in the lonely, swelling/stinging 60F seawater. A couple of weeks into the investigation, I stumbled-onto him in a crowd of pilots outside the BX... and handed him tiny bundle of fiberglass fragments from his jet's radome in a zip-lock baggie as a souvenir [I found embedded in the wing of the KC-135R he collided with]. ONLY THEN did I realize his petite wife was mostly hidden behind everyone. I will never forget the look in her face as she bit her lip and burst into silent streams of tears... the role of 'Fighter-pilot's wife' became 'all-too-real' to her at that moment.

The reason for investigating... understanding and teaching... passing-on... the root-causes-of accidents in-detail is to understand the 'unvarnished-why' so the unique/harsh lessons are NOT lost and that a repeat does NOT have to occur... again and again and again...
 

D Hillberg

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Han Solo?

Really? he's done some dumb stuff - landing at the wrong place and stuffing a Bell 206 L in the dirt
- What Tarzan did was criminal homicide -

$$$$$$ and no brains.

Not the first nor the last.

Learning has nothing to do with obviously "hosing" your passengers for 'ego' trips
 

Rhino

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Han Solo?

Really? he's done some dumb stuff - landing at the wrong place and stuffing a Bell 206 L in the dirt...
I think he meant it was fair game for a little ribbing, not roasting the guy for stupidity. He had an engine failure, so landing on the golf course wasn't a mistake.

Now the time he landed on a taxiway instead of the runway? Yeah, he screwed up. But he's hardly the first person to make that mistake.
 

radfordc

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Victor Bravo You make an important point... It's easy to trash the pilot and make grave-yard jokes... laugh and smirk... at injuries and death... but it is intensely and deeply inappropriate.
OK, no joking is fair. But, pointing out the ineptitude and carelessness of the pilot that resulted in the negligent homicide of 6 passengers isn't out of order.
 

wktaylor

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D Hillberg… when it comes to fellow aviators... my favorite thought on the subject is poetically expressed in Richard Bach's 1960's era book STRANGER TO THE GROUND ...

Tonight I, who love my airplane with all its moods and hardships and joys, am looking upon the stars. And tonight, 20-minutes to the east, there is another pilot, another man who loves his airplane, looking out at these same stars. These symbols.

My airplane is painted with a white star, his with a red star. It is dark, and paint is hard to see. In his cockpit is the same family of flight instruments and engine instruments and radio control panels that is in my cockpit. In his airplane as in mine, when the stick is pressed to the left, the airplane banks to the left.

I know unquestioningly, that I would like the man in that cockpit. We could talk through the long night of the airplanes that we have known and the times we were afraid and the places that we have been. We would laugh over the half-witted things that we did when we were new in the air. We have shared many things, he and I, too many things to be ordered into our airplanes to kill each other.

I went through flying training at a base near Dallas, he went through it at a base near Stalingrad. My flight instructor shouted at me in English, his at him in Russian. But the blue fire trickles once in a while across his windscreen as it does mine and ice builds and breaks over his wing as it does mine. And somewhere in his cockpit is a control panel or circuit breaker panel or a single switch that he has almost to stands on his head to reach.

Perhaps at this moment his daughter is considering whether, or not, to accept a pair of Siamese kittens. Look out for Your curtains, friend. I wish I could warn him about the kittens.
 

wktaylor

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r... [ref #4286] .... "OK, no joking is fair. But, pointing out the ineptitude and carelessness of the pilot that resulted in the negligent homicide of 6 passengers isn't out of order."

Please advise where I can read the completed NTSB accident report. Pardon me if I had the impression this was a relatively recent accident...

BUT... I actually understand You.

General NOTE.
When I was alerted to a USAF accident we generally knew Acft type/SN/crew/crash-location... and had the briefest of formal descriptions, otherwise. Sometimes there were local news reports... but mostly [not always], the early reporting was speculative and dead wrong. Otherwise Info was deliberately squelched, simply because rampant speculation was always grossly miss-leading... especially to investigators who have to go with facts. This is where I learned to understand the vast differences between WAG=Wild-Ass-Guessing and SWAG= Scientific-Wild-Ass-Guessing. After inspecting aircraft-debris in mud-dust-water-snow-stink... etc... and many tense closed-door meetings, etc... all phases of the investigation [usually] coalesced into a relatively coherent 'scenario' in the final/formal report of facts and findings and conclusions. Just saying.

PS, for giggles: I am now posting a thumb-nail 'field photo' of me posing [yes, posing] next to the ass-end of a USAF jet embedded nose-down in unique red-clay soil, off the end of an overseas Air Base runway... where I worked for 8-yeas.
 

Victor Bravo

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Han Solo?

Really? he's done some dumb stuff - landing at the wrong place and stuffing a Bell 206 L in the dirt
- What Tarzan did was criminal homicide -

$$$$$$ and no brains.

Not the first nor the last.

Learning has nothing to do with obviously "hosing" your passengers for 'ego' trips
Sitting here listening to a 40 year old Foghat concert in the headphones, sitting at my work computer waiting for my boss to arrive, I guess I'm an "armchair expert" at best, but I have to agree we do not know anything about what happened to that Citation yet. He may have been 100% Bob Hoover competent, and suffered a pitot-static issue that gave him bad readings. He could have had one of his church elders run into the cockpit with a knife screaming that Beelzebub told him to kill everyone. He could have been stoned on smack. He could have been stupid trying to do a barrel roll on climbout because he thought Bob Hoover would want him to.
 

D Hillberg

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Sitting here listening to a 40 year old Foghat concert in the headphones, sitting at my work computer waiting for my boss to arrive, I guess I'm an "armchair expert" at best, but I have to agree we do not know anything about what happened to that Citation yet. He may have been 100% Bob Hoover competent, and suffered a pitot-static issue that gave him bad readings. He could have had one of his church elders run into the cockpit with a knife screaming that Beelzebub told him to kill everyone. He could have been stoned on smack. He could have been stupid trying to do a barrel roll on climbout because he thought Bob Hoover would want him to.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist - I did spend 4 years teaching and helping investigators in the NTSB.:fear:

Accidents are accidents - Tarzan was no accident - No training No clue No safe space:popcorn:

Maybe Cheetah chimped out when the banana went ballistic. Smacked on stones?

Time for another stay at a HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS? 🤣
 

bmcj

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I met my newest neighbor last night. We had dinner with him and shared stories about our respective experiences at the Air Force Academy (he graduated 25 years behind me). His current assignment is flying F-15’s for the Air National Guard. His personal plane has been a C-172, but he just bought a flying RV-6a.

This afternoon we were shocked and saddened by this news report. Early reports seem to indicate that it was a turn back crash.

 
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David Moxley

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That is a real bummer. You wouldn’t think this would happen to a man that flys F-15 there in Fresno. I guess you just never know. Truly sorry to hear this.
 

BBerson

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I don't think I would ever attempt a restart below 2000 feet. Unsuccessful low restart attempts and botched dead stick landings is the end of a bunch of motor gliders.
 

proppastie

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I don't think I would ever attempt a restart below 2000 feet. Unsuccessful low restart attempts and botched dead stick landings is the end of a bunch of motor gliders.
Why many are looking at electric
 
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