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Crashes in the News - Thread

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pwood66889

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Joined
Feb 10, 2007
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1,783
Location
Sopchoppy, Florida, USA
The recent CAP crash at my home field a week ago has just resulted in a Los Angeles city councilwoman starting a discussion about shutting down the airport.
<Good luck, VB. Portland, Oregon, still has the same mayor as before the "fun" started>
So I sent her an absolute ass-burner e-mail this evening, the exact opposite of a "measured and reasoned response" intentionally.
<Yet, you could PM me your missive. I just do not get mad fast enough to be a good cop or politician.>
 

pictsidhe

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Jul 15, 2014
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Location
North Carolina
Is this the typical encroachment of housing and business around an airfield? City planners allow building over almost every emergency landing option. Then want to close the field because it no longer has any emergency landing options?
 

Victor Bravo

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Jul 30, 2014
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8,316
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KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
No, this is not a "new" problem that came about because of recent building. The environment surrounding this airport has been the same for many years. There are very few places to land within 4 miles. As mentioned previously, there are a few, but none of them are really pretty.

So I looked up the city councilwoman on her website. Before she became a politician, she was an executive at the California Association of Realtors or Real Estate Brokers or something. So this airport closure idea is probably rooted in some back-room tomfoolery involving real estate developers and such.

Anybody have a few gallons of Ranch Hand Dioxin? (I've got a couple of really annoying weeds in front of my hangar, and there's Coyotes living in the bushes on the hill overlooking the ramp... a little defoliant might keep them away)

Does anybody need me to store a couple of barrels of exotic aircraft fuels or propellants? (I think there's a few places around the airport that keeping it there wouldn't bother anyone)
 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
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Nov 14, 2009
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Location
Rocky Mountains
We need to find some rare little critter that only survives on/near an active airport to add to the endangered species list.
I'll offer my services to raise a supply for transplant as needed.

The dioxin idea doesn't always work. 2 schools, a baseball park and an assisted living center were recently built right on top of a known pollution plume near my shop. Was front page news here when discovered, but conveniently forgotten when the powers that be wanted some cheap land.
 

Dieselfume

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Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Messages
102
Location
S36 Kent, WA
Sad news to hear about Ron Borovec.
One lesson out of this should be taken to heart by all of us.
If a plane is overdue, what number do you call? Not just "who", but what telephone number?
...
Yes, a good lesson for all of us. Got to thinking what might be in the AIM. (Aeronautical Information Manual)
Page 6-2-5 had several useful numbers. Had the Coasties CGRCC numbers, AFRCC numbers, etc. I plugged those numbers into my phone. Also added the number Jedi mentioned. When I searched the 206-231-2000 number on the FAA webpage I got to this webpage. Contact Us not exactly intuitive being listed under Hazmat.

AFRCC told you to call a specific local FAA number, curious what number they gave you?
I'm going to browse the "red book" at work to see what useful phone numbers it has.

Looking at flight aware, below the map with the track of the airplane, there's a link for "View track log." If you click that you can get timestamp, lat, long, speed, course, ground speed, etc. The last Lat-Long I googled, and looks reasonably close to what I saw on the news.
 

Wanttaja

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Sep 15, 2013
Messages
1,638
Location
Seattle, WA
AFRCC told you to call a specific local FAA number, curious what number they gave you?
I believe it was Seattle Center in Auburn. I hate to post phone numbers online, but use the area code for Auburn and enter 351-3520. They appear to have a duty officer on that number 24 hours a day.

Just to check tonight, I re-dialed the FIRST number 911 gave me. It was the FAA's public information line, a voicemail tree for reporting security incidents to DHS, aircraft noise, etc.

Tamara Nason ran Flightaware fairly early that night, and found the track quickly. It jibed very closely with where the plane was eventually found. The newspaper account said that the sheriff's department dispatched a helicopter after receiving a call on 911 (note that this was 911 in a different county from my own). I'm suspecting they used the ADS-B data to find the aircraft, although the ELT was probably squawking, too. From what I gather, they found the aircraft at about 9-10 PM; four or five hours after the last ADS-B point and probably only two or three hours after it was reported.

I was pretty impressed on how useful the Flightware data was. One result was that I have turned off anonymous mode for my own ADS-B. I'm a charter member of the tinfoil-hat club...I don't like spewing my N-Number over the ether with every radar pulse. But the utility of this function was obvious. Sure, even with the anonymous mode on, the FAA knows who I am. But I think it let the sheriff react much faster in this case, and certainly there are more options if a plane is overdue.

It's like my ELT.... I'm not required to have one, but I still buy it a new battery every two years.

Ron Wanttaja
 

Dieselfume

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Mar 30, 2004
Messages
102
Location
S36 Kent, WA
I'm suspecting they used the ADS-B data to find the aircraft, although the ELT was probably squawking, too. From what I gather, they found the aircraft at about 9-10 PM; four or five hours after the last ADS-B point and probably only two or three hours after it was reported.
...
I saw a post on FATPNW about someone up flying Thurs evening picked up ELT while over Whidbey and was confused when ATC asked them "can you tell where it is located?" I'd be confused too with that question. On the plus side, the ELT activated as intended, which they don't always do.
 

pwood66889

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Feb 10, 2007
Messages
1,783
Location
Sopchoppy, Florida, USA
"I searched the 206-231-2000 number on the FAA webpage I got to this webpage. Contact Us not exactly intuitive being listed under Hazmat."
I called the number for my area NW FL, USA) and the nice man confirmed that it was for reporting missing airplanes.
 

PagoBay

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Nov 16, 2013
Messages
216
Location
US Territory of Guam

Drone crash into Police Helicopter "crashes" a young man's life.
 

wktaylor

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Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
254
Location
Midwest USA
PB...

Irresponsible drone operation that causes any ground property damage or and airborne collision is serious stuff.

There is an #1 old rule of adult responsibility, that my parents emphasized decades ago... "You break it: You buy it". You cannot avoid legal responsibility by ignoring or hiding or by little-kid-shame-faced apology like 'Awshit, I didn't mean-to'.

Likewise the use of low/high-power LASERs directed against aircraft cockpits is similar in nature. The effects can vary from simple distraction... to dazzle/temporary-blindness... to permanent retinal injury.

In these [2] cases actions are usually 99.99% deliberate... and there is always a real possibility of accidental or deliberate damage, minor/temporary injury or worse... major injury/death. This is the wicked Law of Intended and Unintended Consequences.

Human nature is funny... as-in assuming responsibility for adverse actions, deliberate or accidental. A few harmful/mean/thoughtless actions by a few can 'poison the well' when it comes to genuine hobbies and professional actions...

NOTE. I've lived on a golf course for 22-years. The law everywhere states that the golfer is always responsible damages/injuries caused by their actions. It is always remarkable how many golfers assume their actions are covered by the golf course... or tough-**** to the home owners/insurance. We have tried to intercept golfers who's ball smacks our house hard... waaaay-off course... and we can't even get the golfer to look at us as they walk/drive by. More insidiously we see reckless golf-cart abuse/miss-use/dangerous operation... or just people tramping through flower beds looking for lost balls.

Catch-me-if-you can...
 

Riggerrob

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Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
1,728
Location
Canada
We need to find some rare little critter that only survives on/near an active airport to add to the endangered species list.
I'll offer my services to raise a supply for transplant as needed.

The dioxin idea doesn't always work. 2 schools, a baseball park and an assisted living center were recently built right on top of a known pollution plume near my shop. Was front page news here when discovered, but conveniently forgotten when the powers that be wanted some cheap land.
So what else is new?????

Small town city counsels tend to be dominated by real estate agents ... because that is the only money to be made in bedroom suburbs.
We officially have an Agricultural Land Reserve in the Lower Fraser Valley (surrounding Vancouver), but real estate agents are always trying to get "waivers" from city city counsel.
Pitt Meadows Airport is officially designated as ALR and "aviation use only" but every few years, some real estate agent tries to get a "waiver" to build housing on airport property. "Meadows" is a bit of a euphamism because it is really Fraser River flood plain - 1/8 of an inch above sea level.
Soggy soil - near the river - needs to be pre-loaded with 5 metres of earth for a few years before it is stable enough to support low-rise buildings.
Over the decade, Pitt Meadows Airport Society had been trying to transform this expensive swamp land into an industrial park - similar to Arlington, Washington. I worked at Arlington Airport after the eastern edge had already been transformed into an industrial park. PMAS built a series of tilt-up industrial warehouses parallel to the approaches to runway 26 left and 26 right. They left the direct approaches clear for a few miles. However, local TV news reporters got all upset when an ultralight successfully force-landed on a baseball diamond under the approach to Pitt Meadows' main runway 26 left.

One of the more bizarre waivers is on land designated as "flood plain" Every few years, the Fraser River spring floods overflow dikes. Usually it only floods farmland, but with all the new "McMansions" being built on agricultural easements, it is only a matter of time before some McMansion owner will sue the city for flood damage.
 

pictsidhe

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Jul 15, 2014
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Location
North Carolina
Carmarthen in Wales has a large flood plain directly adjacent to the town. Cattle graze it in summer. It reliably floods every single winter. Yet, property developers apply to build on it every year.
 

ToddK

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Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
414
Location
The Real Texas
We need to find some rare little critter that only survives on/near an active airport to add to the endangered species list.
I'll offer my services to raise a supply for transplant as needed.

The dioxin idea doesn't always work. 2 schools, a baseball park and an assisted living center were recently built right on top of a known pollution plume near my shop. Was front page news here when discovered, but conveniently forgotten when the powers that be wanted some cheap land.
The critters you are referring to are called MEN!
 

Riggerrob

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Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
1,728
Location
Canada
Carmarthen in Wales has a large flood plain directly adjacent to the town. Cattle graze it in summer. It reliably floods every single winter. Yet, property developers apply to build on it every year.
Perhaps duck huggers and sport pilots can find common cause if they collaborate to get the flood plain designated as an important resting place for migratory birds.
Sport pilots primarily fly during the warm and dry months creating little risk of collision with migratory birds.

Near Vancouver the Wildlife Conservatory has traded several pieces of marginal farmland for out-right SWAMPS owned by greedy land-developers. Trades are allowed within the Agricultural Land Reserve.
The ALR is similar to the Greenbelt surrounding Ottawa.
 

Bill-Higdon

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Feb 6, 2011
Messages
933
Location
Salem, Oregon, USA

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