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Crashes in the News - Thread

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BBerson

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So is that poor airmanship or poor ADM?
I don't know if it was an intentional split S or other low level aerobatic maneuver. I don't know his experience.
But it's common for low level pilots to pull full back when the ground fills the windshield.
I don't know what ADM is. 😀
 

Victor Bravo

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Putting ADM and ground school and the FAA and everything else aside for a moment... all of that is valid... but all of that is far secondary to being able to exert control of the aircraft, keeping it and the occupants undamaged, and the hands-on stuff we call "stick and rudder". Assuming the decision has been made to fly that day, then all the ADM and rulebook stuff and technical gadgetry is far far less important than having the skill to fly the airplane.
 

TFF

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The FAA does not believe in stick and rudder as that is not PC. Ability has to be taken out. Dumbed down to the point it is putting toothpaste on the toothbrush. Skill leaves out people. It doesn’t leave out many but you can’t exclude. I noticed something once and I bet it’s valid. Can the person being taught to fly ride a bike? I bet the bad candidates are shaky. Can they take big hills at speed with a bend in them? As a kid I loved hills. Ramps made from bricks and rotten 1x12s. I have seen this deficiency in teaching people how to drive.

Training planes are easy to fly. Moving controls is no biggy. Point of closure is. Judging distance. In the air, distances can be far like the horizon at altitude or close like landing. Think of IFR. Essentially you have to use all those spatial cues and translate them from the panel only.

A kid on a bike learns this distance judgment. I know lots of kids today who never learned to ride a bike. The FAA is having to include these people.
 

TFF

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The Corvus looks like the owner did the roll and pulled the stick back all the way and snaprolled it unintentionally. Snap roll is a horizontal spin which translated to a regular vertical. He held up elevator all the way in. Even at a higher altitude it would have gone in because the pilot did not know how to get out of it. There is a reason 1500 ft for aerobatics. At least some stupid space before you hit the ground.
 

Turd Ferguson

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I know we have several experienced CFI's here... what do you guys think?
Yeah, like the old AC 60-14 Instructor's Handbook pointed out, the greatest single barrier to effective communication is lack of a common core of experience. Multiply that times 50, then throw in the language barrier for some foreign students. Can you imagine trying to learn how to perform a complex task like flying a plane from someone using basically sign language? Haven't even gotten to the cultural and social barriers. I'm amazed some foreign students can learn to fly at all, especially when most of the CFI's teaching them don't care.
 

BBerson

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Might have been his first roll attempt.
Some RC training in rolls could have helped.
I think pilots are simply told to not do things, but they do it anyway. So they need to see why it doesn't work somehow. Instead they see it in air shows and it looks easy.
 

TFF

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You don’t have to push or pull to get through a basic roll. Non aerobatic pilot’s natural reaction is to pull up. It’s like a regular driver hitting the brakes in an emergency. When the plane did not stay on a rail during the roll the natural reaction was pull up and get out. Never in a spin before, pull up. Unluckily pull up exacerbated everything he was trying to get out of. Push, if you have never done negative G, it’s disorienting because you have never been pulled out of your seat. Guess what, natural reaction is pull to get it feeling right. A plane not as strong will pull the wing off. That is what happened locally when a pilot got his Commercial license. In the rented Aztec he had just finished up in said “ when I’m done I’m going to roll that sucker “. Rolled, pulled a wing off, all with his family riding.
 

Toobuilder

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That roll was completely safe at that altitude and no negative or zero G required. He set himself up well with the upline and had it made to the 50% point. The pilot simply did the wrong thing after that and paid for that transgression dearly.
 

Victor Bravo

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The Corvus crash video looks to me like the pilot just had no idea whatsoever how to do a simple aileron roll. Don't hold the !(#*$ stick back while you're rolling. There are plenty of people who could have done a perfectly safe (not legal) aileron roll from that altitude in a Twin Beech without scratching it.
 

bmcj

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That’s just stupidity. You don’t go wings past 90 just off the deck unless you’re willing to feed in some forward stick.
Just to clarify, I’m not advocating pushing the stick (negative g’s), I’m saying they have to be willing to release some of their aft-stick pressure. Actual negative g’s can sometimes be disconcerting, even to experiences pilots.
 

BBerson

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My RC friend calls that failed roll a "jelly roll". It's much more difficult to do a proper roll in a transportation airplane than it is in an Extra 300. An Extra 300 can be flicked through a roll and completed before anything goes badly wrong.
Not so easy in a transport airplane (limited roll rate, excess dihedral, forward CG, etc)
 
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