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Toobuilder

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He's a student in a pilot puppy mill... He can't be expected to use the rudder pedals at anything close to flying speed. Rudder pedals are ONLY for taxi.

I actually know an instructor who teaches that.
 

Daleandee

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Well, yeah, and not setting up final at 90 knots, and maintaining the centerline, and not grabbing the GoPro before mixture, fuel, mags, etc....
The look on his face was; "Oh No! I need to stop the evidence recording device ... but I'm too late!"

Someone should should have a discussion with his CFI as this pilot does not appear to be ready to fly the airplane by himself.

(Edited to correctly say the pilot does not appear ready to solo.)
 
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Vigilant1

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Someone should should have a discussion with his CFI as this pilot does appear to be ready to fly the airplane by himself.
The report indicates the student had 72 total hours of flight time and 30 hours in C-172s. Interesting. I can't throw any rocks because I've made mistakes, too. I haven't bent a plane, but I've also been lucky.
I was fortunate to learn to drive, fly, ride a bike, hike in the hills with my friends, etc before every event was documented and available worldwide, forever.
 
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BBerson

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Forced wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel is almost impossible to control. I doubt he was taught anything about it.
I repaired a C-206 for an owner that said he was forced to land at 120. Of course it departed the runway and into a snow bank.
 

speedracer

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Don't those spam cans come with rudder pedals...... and toe brakes? I couldn't see it but I'll bet he had the yoke cranked all the way to the right and he's like WTF?
 

BBerson

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Something like this?

Yep. Notice the mains are in the air so no brakes!
Running on the nosewheel so far forward is like the worst taildragger ever. Best not to touch the pedals and make it veer off the runway. The proper correction was to ease back on the yoke and land further down the runway or add power and go around. ( or learn not to push it on the nose in the first place)
 
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Victor Bravo

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There needs to be some sort of financial or regulatory consequences for pushing students out of these school without being able to fly the airplane in modestly competent manner. I know that the CFI cannot be blamed for everything a student does in terms of judgment, but not teaching basic control of the airplane?

I know we have several experienced CFI's here... what do you guys think? Are the practical flying skill requirements that hard to teach nowdays? Do the flight schools have so much power to force an instructor to sign off incompetent new pilots, knowing they might hurt someone? Are the DPE's simply not concerned with a private pilot's ability to fly the airplane safely?

You high-time guys, instructors, flight school owners... spill it... where does this problem lie?
 

jedi

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............
You high-time guys, instructors, flight school owners... spill it... where does this problem lie?
Yes, there is a problem. My local maintenance shop currently has two turbine Beavers on amphibious floats that were landed gear down in the water. That is in addition to the Cessna that did the same three weeks prior.

First clue is the epaulets on the shirt. The school is intent on making "airline pilots" rather than "real" pilots. First you learn to fly, then you learn how to run an airline.

There is too much emphasis on ADM (Aeronautical Decision Making) check lists and procedures, before mastering basic flying skills.

From https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/fits/research/media/s_r.pdf a portion of which is copied below you may get a flavor of today's training in a technically advanced airplane (TAA).

"INTRODUCTION
This is the final report and the culmination of research completed by the FITS team to
develop improved methodology for inclusion or deletion of maneuvers to the Practical
Test Standards (PTS). Three previous reports have been submitted:

Report #1 explained the current methodology used by the FAA to add or remove tasks from the PTS. FITS research concluded that current FAA methodology, though generally accepted for many years, has not been updated to include modern scientific or statistical methods to select training and evaluation tasks."

I taught for a short while at one of the highly regarded major US flight schools and was very disappointed in their flight school program. I was however very impressed with their engineering program. If I could have put the flight 101 students in an Ultralight type of aircraft and let them solo for ten hours they would have developed the necessary flight skills that are missing after 35 hours in a TAA Cessna.

I could go on and on but the bottom line is that the student does not learn what one hour in a J3 cub would teach him/her. Furthermore, real ADM is controlled by the university procedures and not applied by the students.

This is a great forum but it does not have a flight training area and it should. I currently have several EAB students and their flight training problems are all too typical. They can not find qualified CFIs to teach in their equipment. The FARs are too restrictive and make effective training much more difficult. Also, the EAA programs are of little help, nor is the insurance industry of any assistance.

The insurance rep told me that the only solution to one student's current flight training problem is to sell the aircraft.

Meanwhile, I am working with Senators and Representatives (with no progress) to help an out of work but qualified CFI. Although he completed the required training he was unable to keep his certificate current and it has expired because the FAA does not have the time and staff to do their paperwork. The less than professional training establishment that the FAA oversees has unqualified staff and computer programs to complete the renewal of a CFI certificate that when originally issued was stated to never expire. That certificate is similar to the one you all, as pilots, carry in your pocket, the one that a few years ago was converted from paper to plastic at your expense. The same certificate that still is not adequate identification and needs to be accompanied by other government isssued and current identification with an expiration date indicated.
 
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bmcj

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... what do you guys think? Are the practical flying skill requirements that hard to teach nowdays?
I’ve had three students that I worked with that seemed hopeless. I finally sat them down and told them that they might not be cut out to be a pilot, and I also suggest that they fly with one of the other instructors to see if it might just be a style incompatibility between student and instructor. One quit with a sigh of relief... it turns out he never wanted to fly but was being pushed into it. One of them had success with the other instructor. The last one tried but had no success with the other instructors, and they shared my opinion that he had no aptitude for flying; we also found out that he had washed out of other schools previously, but he failed to mention that. I can only guess that the last student likely moved on to try his luck at another school.

The pilot mills seem to be a different story altogether though. They seem to measure success more by quantity over quality.
 

Vigilant1

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Judgement: Some people say it can't be taught, but I think we could do a lot more to develop it in student pilots. Everyone needs to develop that in-the-moment ongoing consideration of : Is this smart? Is this situation safe, is it one I've seen before? Lots of this happens in the air with a good instructor, but a LOT can be done at very low cost right at the instructor's desk in the FBO. I and many others benefitted from programs structured to include time for discussion of lots of scenarios, ”here's a situation, analyze it and tell me what you:d do” events. I don't see much of this in many FBOs. It gives the instructor a way to see if the student's knowledge (acft systems, flight procedures) is good, and most importantly if he/she can at least think through the problem in a timely manner deskside. If he can't do it there, he won't be able to do it in the airplane.
Low time pilots can easily get task saturated with the mechanics of just flying. In these cases, stuff the instructor is saying may barely be processed, much less internalized. Eventually this situation gets better, but there's still a lot to be gained by imparting knowledge (and setting high expected standards) at the desk. And don't get me started on the common crummy, quick postflight discussions. That flight time is pricey, students should be eager to pay for some additional deskside time to get the most out of each flight.
 
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