# Crashes in the News - Thread

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#### djmcfall

##### Active Member
I do not understand why people delay or refuse to use carb heat. Before decent if conditions are anywhere close to carb ice conditions, pull carb heat while still at cruise power before retarding throttle. You don’t have to wait till downwind to apply carb heat, at 5 to 10 out you can apply it if conditions dictate. If you don’t have a carb temp gauge it is either full or none, as partial can cause ice at lower temps. Caution zone is: Temps 30-70F, temperature-dew point spread within 3 degrees, visible moisture, high humidity, clouds, rain, mist and/or induction system that pulls from outside the cowl like cessnas. If any of these are present then be thinking carb ice. Been there done that, don’t wait til it is too late. Carb heat when not needed is OKAY, no carb heat when needed is not OKAY. Fly safe.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
The rich mixture caused by carb heat accelerates the soot fouling of the spark plugs. This is the only reason that excess use of carb heat (when descending or on approach) can be problematic. Of course carb heat helps prevent a power loss under icing conditions, and of course a little soot on the plugs is nothing in comparison to a crashed airplane. But the soot issue exists.

#### bifft

##### Well-Known Member
Carb heat when not needed is OKAY, no carb heat when needed is not OKAY. Fly safe.
This isn't true in every case. Carb heat causes a slight loss of power which can be a problem if power available is marginal. In one of my early solo flights in a 152 in a Utah summer afternoon (high density altitude) I left carb heat in when doing a touch and go. Cleared the power lines 3/4 mile south of the airport by about 50 feet. With carb heat off climb wasn't spectacular, but it was better than that.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Carb heat creates high density richening. The question is the detonation reserve high enough to lean the engine to get the power to at least best power for that density? A friend has a digital carb temp. It’s amazing the temp difference is summer to winter. Summer you see 100 + degree temp. Winter 59. Higher than freezing but plenty low to fly around and lean. Not best practice but doable. There is also the difference of Lycoming and Continentals. You can freeze the carb heat door on a Continental because it’s out in the cold. Lycoming does not happen near as much. Hence the all or nothing carb heat rule. Can’t teach Lycoming this Continental that in the FARs. Got to keep it dumb for the masses.

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Whiteman based RV-8 down in Tehachapi today. 1 fatal

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Carb heat, like any aircraft control, should be used intelligently. In some cases it can cause icing. Lycoming recommends that it not be used unless icing is suspected... but Lycomings, unlike Continentals, aren't particularly prone to icing.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Carb heat, like any aircraft control, should be used intelligently.
And therein lies the challenge to an improved GA safety record.

BJC

#### Marc Zeitlin

##### Exalted Grand Poobah
Whiteman based RV-8 down in Tehachapi today. 1 fatal
For the morbid amongst us, this is what they pulled out of the roof of the building and which I drove by on the way to the airport this morning:

The streaks running forward and down over the forward fuselage and the cowl are, well, not aircraft fluids.

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Carb heat, like any aircraft control, should be used intelligently. In some cases it can cause icing. Lycoming recommends that it not be used unless icing is suspected... but Lycomings, unlike Continentals, aren't particularly prone to icing.
If you are referring to this RV-8, it's fuel injected (200 HP). His wingman watched the attempted landing and go around. Airplane would not climb or accelerate after lift off. Disappeared behind some buildings to the ultimate result

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Wingman? Was that a first flight?

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
No first flight - just a couple buddies flying around on a Friday morning.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I can see how one might have guessed first flight since the cowling appears to be unpainted. I’ve seen others delay cowl paint until they get the engine issues ironed out.

#### GTX_Engines

##### Active Member
A good friend died Friday night in Indiana in the hospital after succumbing to burns suffered from a chash while testing one of his latest Brantley helo rebuilds. This is what he did for most of his later life, and it comes as a shock to all of us in the PRA. He was the best Brantley rebuilder and authority in the country. He was able to tell his friend, who pulled him from the burning wreckage, "Lost power". The Brantley uses a Lycoming O-320 variant purpose built by Lycoming for helicopters. Posted below is an example of the aircraft.

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Flew to Tehachapi today to get gas and saw the hole in the roof of the building. Also talked to a good buddy (very seasoned test pilot/flight instructor) who watched the incident aircraft landing/go around. He has it on security camera, in fact (gave a copy to the FAA). The guy landed on the numbers, rolled down half of the runway, THEN decided to go around. Airplane lifted off in a 3 point attitude and crashed 30 degrees left of runway heading, just outside the airport fence. Talked to another guy who was called out to turn off the ELT and HE said it was a departure stall. There was plenty of fuel on board, as the FD had to contain it at the scene.

No smoking gun yet.

#### Marc Zeitlin

##### Exalted Grand Poobah
... Talked to another guy who was called out to turn off the ELT and HE said it was a departure stall.
I talked to a few folks who were watching from the ground, and a couple stated that the engine was sputtering and running poorly on the go-around attempt. Given the attitude at which it hit the building, the direction it was facing, and the eyewitness accounts from people who understand airplanes, it certainly sounds like a departure stall/spin after an attempted turn back, possibly caused by engine failure.

#### Toobuilder

HBA Supporter
Log Member
Strange. Airplane runs like a top all the way from Whiteman, makes a normal approach, then runs like $hit on the go around? Maybe mixture was leaned for cruise and not reset? #### Dana ##### Super Moderator Staff member If you are referring to this RV-8, it's fuel injected (200 HP). His wingman watched the attempted landing and go around. Airplane would not climb or accelerate after lift off. Disappeared behind some buildings to the ultimate result No, it was in response to some discussion of carb heat a few posts above. #### Marc Zeitlin ##### Exalted Grand Poobah Strange. Airplane runs like a top all the way from Whiteman, makes a normal approach, then runs like$hit on the go around? Maybe mixture was leaned for cruise and not reset?
What I heard from the guy who ran into the building to see if he could save the pilot was that a witness said that the landing was really crappy and that the plane might have partially run off the runway, maybe hitting something. He surmised that the prop might have struck the ground, which may have caused engine damage. Obviously, this is now what - fourth hand information with a lot of "mights" in it, so take that for what it's worth, which is the electrons it's written with.

DA on the field was probably about 6500 ft, so leaning MIGHT have been an issue also.