Crashes in the News - Thread

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Hephaestus

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Yeah, suppose then we haven't ruled out russian SAMs :)

I don't know - last media reports say ran out of runway taking off... Yet the runways not short... AULA is daytime VFR only, so taking off around sunset in the mountains? I'd put more faith in trying to get down before light is gone...

Damage reminds me of a pancake it in scenario - stalling 10-20' up, nose drops. Sudden stop. Merritts runway is beside a lake in a pretty good valley. Even before sunset it's getting dark in there and you're going to struggle if your not used to it.

I'd ignore the snow in the pictures - it snowed that day. But the rest looks clear - so could very well be floordry etc to manage leaking fuel/fluids.
 

bmcj

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Well, if you drive into snow it doesn't really pile up, it compresses and blasts it away. I dont think it would have much of a pile with only a few inches of snow like that anyways.
I wasn’t quite sure how to interpret the line of snow in the photos. It almost looked like either the discharge off the end of a plow or possibly even (but not as likely) a drift caused by wind blowing through a gap. A plow discharge could certainly be packed densely enough to stop a rolling plane.
 

Victor Bravo

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Regarding that Zenith STOL in BC, those tires are easily big enough to have rolled over that little amount of snow in the picture. The snow had nothing to do with this IMHO.

Perhaps a partial cartwheel after hitting the port side wingtip, or perhaps a low altitude stall. Not crunched enough for a high speed impact (LOC, dive into ground).

If it happened at night, then perhaps poor depth perception and stall after flare too high, or a bad PIO-stall sequence after a bounce?
 

poormansairforce

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We had a local man stall and lawn dart a Cessna years ago. Same exact scenario. Engine pushed the pilot into the back seat. And the plane just stood there on its its nose. So thats my vote but I guess we'll find out eventually....
 

Doggzilla

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I wasn’t quite sure how to interpret the line of snow in the photos. It almost looked like either the discharge off the end of a plow or possibly even (but not as likely) a drift caused by wind blowing through a gap. A plow discharge could certainly be packed densely enough to stop a rolling plane.
Those drifts can be extremely dense, I drove through one in Wyoming and it blew the belt off my engine.

Im fairly certain the aircraft bounced (possibly off a drift) and it yawed and hit the right wing. The right wing is bent back, and I dont think that would have occured if the nose hit first.

That would also explain why the cockpit collapsed, because if the wing root was damaged, that is an integrated part of the cockpit frame and would have made the cockpit far weaker when the nose hit.

Im thinking the left wheel hit a drift and swung the right wing out. With the wheels sideways it would have rolled into the right wing, struck, and probably nosed the prop into the ground as the momentum of the tail swung it upwards and the nose down.
 

crusty old aviator

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The designer, Chris Heintz, told me back in the the 70’s that he designed his airplanes “to be flown, not crashed,” which surprised me, given the abundance of .040 skin on his fuselages. With today’s CAD and FEA programs so readily available, we can now design and build much lighter and much more crashworthy structures that an amateur can successfully fabricate.
I wonder which prop strikes occur more: from nose overs on conventional gear aircraft, or from busted nose gear struts? The data would have to be weighted to account for their being more “training wheel” equipped aircraft than conventional gear planes...
 

Doggzilla

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Definitely still nose overs on conventional. Probably because there are a million ways to accidentally have a prop strike with conventional and only two with trikes. Broken strut or flying into the local IRS building. :oops:
 

BJC

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Conventional gear configuration has two tangible advantages: it is lighter, and it can have less drag.

The intangible benefit is the bravado factor that makes some pilots feel special.

I’ve posted this in the past, but will post it again for the newbies here. Years ago at Oshkosh, a group of people were wearing Tee shirts with the slogan, “If you don’t fly with a tailwheel, you aren’t a real pilot”. Later, another group showed up wearing shirts that declared, “If you don’t fly a Pitts, you aren’t s#it”. Everyone needs to feel special sometime.


BJC
 

BBerson

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I call the wheels "takeoff gear".
The training wheels are for takeoff. A skid is lightest and ideal for landing. A real pilot could use a skid for takeoff also ...
(water doesn't count)
 

Hephaestus

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I don’t call the two types “conventional” and “tricycle”... I call them “landing gear” and “that’s just wrong”. :rolleyes:
Hey now :) we can't all be stuck in the dc3 and cub era :popcorn:

But I'm happy to fly either as long as they're still attached to the plane when it's parked I'm happy :beer:
 

BJC

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A friend (with both conventional and tricycle gear airplanes) will only buy a car with a manual transmission, because he “likes to operate the machinery”. But he is quite happy not to need to choke / prime the engine or manually adjust the ignition timing.


BJC
 

poormansairforce

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A friend (with both conventional and tricycle gear airplanes) will only buy a car with a manual transmission, because he “likes to operate the machinery”. But he is quite happy not to need to choke / prime the engine or manually adjust the ignition timing.


BJC
My 18 yr old son wanted a simple vehicle so stuff won't break. He has a 2 wheel drive 5 speed Ranger with roll up windows! So there is hope for the future.:)
 

Hephaestus

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I still run an older Toyota 4 runner for that reason... Simple EFI/ignition but 5spd manual - factory electronic lockers are nice too.

And I don't have to pull of 20 plastic covers to do anything.

Having driven an old caddy that required manally controlling the timing... Yeah I'm happy with that being automatically managed too :)
 

Victor Bravo

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Although it's not really very easy to tell an F-104 or SR-71 pilot that their airplane is easier to fly and that they don't have the cajones to fly a real airplane.

So I would fall back and say "well, some of us are so good we only need one wheel in the center..." and hope we can get away with it!
 

jedi

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Although it's not really very easy to tell an F-104 or SR-71 pilot that their airplane is easier to fly and that they don't have the cajones to fly a real airplane.

So I would fall back and say "well, some of us are so good we only need one wheel in the center..." and hope we can get away with it!
I hate to have to say this but flight is better when there are no wheels. Take your choice seaplane, paraglider or hang glider. Even skies are better than wheels but then you have to brave the cold.

If I had warm sand I would not even have the shoes.
 
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