Crashes in the News - Thread

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bmcj

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Fixed it for you. Man, what is it with all the crashes this weekend?
Thanks Dana.

I hear you... it’s been relatively quiet for a couple of weeks, and now everyone seems to be falling out of the sky this week.

fly safe everyone.
 

Victor Bravo

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What was the pilot of the S76 doing down close to the terrain in poor visibility like that? Those hills are less than 3000 or 3500 MSL. and the pilot could easily have been a lot higher than that. No density altitude issues, it was not very warm here today. My wife works less than 3 miles from that location.

It was definitely not any place for a non-IFR rated pilot to be, and driving passengers around for hire in a turbine helo would certainly not have been legal or likely for a non-IFR pilot. I'm sure Mr. Bryant could have picked any number of 5000 hour ATP helo drivers to drive him around.

There are definitely Minimum Enrroute Altitudes published for that area, which I believe an IFR rated pilot would know about. Hell I'm VFR only and I know about MEA's.
 

Doggzilla

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When I was in commercial flight school the majority of the pilots who ended up flying private jets and helos were rejects from the regionals and airlines. It wasnt a bad program either, it was the top university program in the region.

I would not trust ANY of the pilots I know who fly private jets or helis except those who have proven themselves in a regional airline or the military.

This is exactly the kind of behavior they used to show on a routine basis, and Ive had several near head on collisions with private jets who were landing with the wind and not making calls on the airport frequencies.

Flight school has become about who can afford it and nothing about who is most qualified. Maybe 5% of the graduates are good enough to pass a flight check to work for a regional, then move up to airlines.

Even only a fraction of the instructors were good enough to get hired at a regional. It was the blind leading the blind much of the time.
 
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Victor Bravo

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Well thanks for that, you just vaporized my trust in corporate pilots. I know a couple who are high timers and first rate pilots, but now I'll never have a good night's sleep because I just learned that the two or three that I know are the exception :(
 

Doggzilla

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Was reading something earlier today and it said that corporate and helis are something like 277 times more likely to be involved in a crash than commercial. Seeing as how they are the vast majority of crashes, but very few flight hours compared to the massive number by commercial. So their per hour crash rate is vastly higher than commercial. When factoring in a per seat chance of accident, its even worse.

I think if more executives knew how bad the crash stats were, they would push to make flight school more merit based. Nobody really cares about the background of a pilot as long as hes safe and competent.
 

TarDevil

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When I was in commercial flight school the majority of the pilots who ended up flying private jets and helos were rejects from the regionals and airlines. It wasnt a bad program either, it was the top university program in the region.

I would not trust ANY of the pilots I know who fly private jets or helis except those who have proven themselves in a regional airline or the military.

This is exactly the kind of behavior they used to show on a routine basis, and Ive had several near head on collisions with private jets who were landing with the wind and not making calls on the airport frequencies.

Flight school has become about who can afford it and nothing about who is most qualified. Maybe 5% of the graduates are good enough to pass a flight check to work for a regional, then move up to airlines.

Even only a fraction of the instructors were good enough to get hired at a regional. It was the blind leading the blind much of the time.
While I know this behavior remains the exception, those exceptions almost always were corporate pilots at the FBO I managed. Straight in downwind approaches, ignoring unicom calls, various other pattern deviations. One Citation pilot chewed out my chief flight instructor for being in the pattern, bragging about his type rating. My CFII proceeded to pull out his license and log book... with his extensive south Pacific experience, numerous type ratings and many thousands of hours... and asked the jet jock to match his credentials. Of course, he couldn't.
That CFII had to take control of our trainers numerous times dodging wild approaches and landings by corporate pilots who were oblivious to other aircraft in "their" airspace.
Again... those were exceptions to most well mannered pilots, but when these incidents occurred it was almost always at the hand of corporate hires.
I will say this... I can't remember even one corporate pilot busting minimums. Lots of shrugged shoulders in the terminal with the fading sound of turbine engines and radio calls diverting to airports with an ILS. One of the corporate pilots based at my airport was called "chicken" because he was afraid of "a little bit of thunder."
Weather got respect, but pattern rules existed for lesser pilots.
 
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BJC

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Has anyone noticed the tendency of left handed pilots not to announce pattern position at uncontrolled airports?


BJC
 

Doggzilla

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Judging by how many times I’ve almost been hit at uncontrolled airports, It seems like that problem is ambidextrous hahaha.

I think the most blatant violations I’ve ever seen are during airshows. Seen several pilots get a dressing down for violating airspace time restrictions for blue angels shows.

Because those corporate jets have to use the same airport as the demonstration aircraft. If they had filed a flight plan they would clearly have been told the timing restrictions.
 

D Hillberg

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Don't mix IMC and IFR when it comes to Helicopters.
IFR works for aircraft at airports and airways
Doesn't work worth a **** in hills and remote areas with no services,
IMC takes navigation to a whole new level, the hills always wins.

This was nothing more then scud running.
They could of done better with a less expensive helicopter and a better pilot...
 

BBerson

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They are saying the pilot got "a special clearance". I assume that was a special VFR clearance. And tracking showed 184 mph descending at 4000 fpm at impact.
 

Turd Ferguson

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The S-76 pilot was instrument rated and a SoCal resident so I would say he was familiar with flying in that area. The ground track is interesting as the helicopter appeared to make several laps in a holding pattern.
 

TFF

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The voice recordings with ATC are on YouTube. They had been in a hold a friend who listened said.
 

Dana

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Apparently he asked for special VFR to cross the Burbank class C and circled until cleared. Beyond that, it sounds like a classic case of VFR into IMC and getthereitis: "the destination is only 7 miles farther, I think we can squeak in before the clouds get any lower..."

Even for an IFR pilot, there's that moment of disorientation when you suddenly find yourself in the soup, it takes a moment to adjust to the instruments. Unfortunately for them, the mountain was only half a moment away.
 

davidb

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They are saying the pilot got "a special clearance". I assume that was a special VFR clearance. And tracking showed 184 mph descending at 4000 fpm at impact.
This. I know nothing of helicopters but I just chatted with a guy who is a highly experienced helicopter pilot and is quite familiar with the area and the type of operation they were performing. Apparently special VFR is extra special for helicopters. His take is they were attempting to maintain visual reference in conditions that us fixed wing pilots consider low IFR. At some point he likely got spatial disorientation and lost control as evidenced by the high speed and high rate of descent.

The helicopter they were flying is quite capable and well equipped for IFR but that was not the mission. Their goal was probably to land somewhere not served by an instrument approach. I’m guessing the pilot felt pressure to get Kobe to the destination. He may have been a great pilot but we all have limits.

I imagine it is difficult to transition to instruments when the goal is to maintain visual references in poor conditions. The guy I was chatting with had many stories of spatial disorientation crashes of guys pushing too hard. Sometimes the only safe option is to land in a field or to go IFR without a clearance.
 

TXFlyGuy

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When the WX is so bad that the LA police department grounds their entire fleet of choppers, you might want to stay on the ground too.
 

Doggzilla

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Having spent years in the mountains, the proper way to deal with this issue is fairly straightforward.

Fog and clouds are almost always very localized in these areas. It’s not usually like the Midwest or Northeast where it’s 200 miles of overcast. The mountains create their own very localized weather (especially the area around LA. Weather in the hills is almost always very localized by 1-2 miles)

You can usually fly out of fog or clouds in IFR (usually no more than 5-6 miles most of the time), then switch to VFR and survey the conditions from the outside.

In a lot of cases you can see the base of the clouds and judge whether or not you can enter safely under it. It will be somewhat obvious if the clouds are high enough to go under safely. I mean very obvious. Even pilots with zero mountain experience will understand immediately once seeing it.

If you cannot see the base of the clouds clearly from the outside, it’s not safe enough to enter again. Go to your alternate.
 
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