Crashes in the News - Thread

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Turd Ferguson

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The news coverage on fuel dumping has been spectacular. "A pilot dumped fuel directly over a school yard" and several reports of people being "hurt" or "injured" on the the ground, yet no one was taken to or treated at a hospital. I guess that's for the lawsuits. Also some apparent coaching as kids reported they smelled "gasoline" despite the fact most have likely never smelled kerosene before.
 

Alan_VA

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BJC

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News reports are that the aircraft had engine problems and returned to land. They dumped fuel to get below the maximum landing weight.

Why they dumped where they did, and why they reported that they did not need to dump fuel, remain open questions.


BJC
 

bmcj

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Has anyone actually reported on the reason the fuel was dumped? Pilot error? Bogus instrument indication? To prevent the plane from crashing?

Alan
I’ve only heard them describe the problem described as an engine issue. That can be any number of things, a faulty sender/indicator, temp out of range, rpm variations, etc. most likely not a dangerous situation, but enough of an unknown to prompt a return to base rather than heading off in an ocean crossing flight. At that point, the options were to dump fuel to get to a safe landing weight, or hold the passengers hostage for many hours burning fuel while circling Los Angeles. The only real issue here is why they dumped over the city at low altitude instead of over the bay, and that might have been a crew misstep or a result ATC vectoring. I can only assume that there might have been some urgency to the situation which prompted them to dump while being vectored for approach to landing.
 

davidb

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I’m hearing compressor stall which is serious enough to warrant an expedited return to landing. Fuel dumping is for getting to a safe landing weight which is usually a structural limit but can be a performance limit under some conditions. Overweight landing is an emergency option but has some risk. There’s probably no advantage to continue dumping once on final approach.

Anyone know when they stopped dumping? Were the schools on final?
 

wktaylor

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Delta 777 Dumps Fuel Over School (Updated). Acft was likely at MAX Gross T.O. weight for flight to Asia... lots of fuel to jettison. Under ‘routine circumstances’ it should have climbed higher, and be directed to unpopulated spaces, to allow fuel to vaporize/disperse.

Lucy... FAA, ATC and Delta have 'got some splainin to do'...

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/delta-777-dumps-fuel-over-school/
 

jedi

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Engine surge can generally be resolved by reducing power and the engine can be operated at a reduced power setting. Severe engine damage or other issues may require a shutdown. It is not possible to tell from the news video if the engine is shutdown. There is one news video from a passenger cell phone that "shows the engine fire". That would be the typical passenger response to the engine surge. However, it looked to me like the video was a reflection of the red beacon light on the engine cowl and airframe.

This looks to me like a training and check list issue. What is the Delta fuel dump check list? Does it include a suggestion to notify ATC and consider clearance to dump fuel or does it assume emergency authority to dump without approval.

In the simulator instructors are known to shortcut ATC procedures to accomplish the task and get on with the next emergency. I have never seen a simulator training session that completed a full 50 minute fuel dump. Just reset the gross weight and complete the landing within the max landing weight. In practice one should consider overweight landing conditions.

I could tell a story about the 747 that landed with the "high overweight landing" rather than the "normal overweight landing" that had a big impact on post landing operational requirements. One requires a maintenance walk around inspection and refuel and takeoff. The other requires an AOG ferry of 16 tires and wheels (and brakes?) to Alaska accompanied with hotel and meals for 400 passengers plus 20 crew members and a flight that is 24 hours behind schedule.

Jet fuel is irritating to the skin. The kids needed a bath and the elementary school may not have had showers. Bad deal.

A flight attendant told me, in hindsight, that if she was again soaked in jet fuel she would not hesitate to remove all her clothing after an evacuation and direct others to do the same.
 
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BBerson

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I was on a 747 that dumped fuel over the pacific 200 miles west of LA.
The pilot said he had shut down an engine because of low oil pressure and we returned to LA. It concerned me most when he said he was dumping fuel.
 
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