Crashes in the News - Thread

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SVSUSteve

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Setting up a trust or will and or joint ownership arrangements is just like buying an airplane; doing your homework up front pays big dividends.

Probate laws, although similar, vary from state to state. For example, in some states, it is prudent to include “self proving” features in a will. Even a surviving spouse can have difficulty completing probate without such a provision. And lawyers fees are extremely variably, and not necessarily related to the quality of their service. How jointly owned assets are titled is important. For example, there is a big difference between “spouse and spouse” and “spouse or spouse.”


BJC
There's also a issue when a married couple die in a plane crash (or car crash, etc) that sometimes potential heirs raise. If one spouse survived (even by a few seconds) it can alter who gets the estate especially if one (or both) have children from a previous relationship.

I cannot get into specific details but I am going, barring a settlement, to get called to testify in such a case here in the near future. Suffice to say while, to a layperson, both victims would be "dead as soon as the plane hit the ground" (to quote opposing counsel), the autopsy evidence indicates that one victim had injuries and related findings that indicated that they were likely clinically ("legally") alive for at least a couple of minutes post-crash. The pathologist who performed the autopsy and myself (I was present for the autopsy documenting assessing the injuries as part of my injury biomechanics research) have both been subpoenaed.
 

SVSUSteve

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For certain design missions this would seem perfectly acceptable as the potential risk of that impact would be perceived as very low. In the “low and slow” world of off airport operations it’s probably best to have a more robust cage.
Perception is not the same thing as reality unfortunately. It's like the old sarcastic comment about the design criteria for the Piper Cub including a stall speed "just high enough to kill both occupants".

If people paid attention (and didn't let self-serving biases get in the way) they would realize that often the riskier flying (insofar as "how many people die" if not the X per 100,000 hours estimates or number of persons involved) involves the puttering around smashing bugs sort of flying and not pilots engaged in "high risk" activities. For every 1 ag or bush flying I have data on, I probably have a minimum of 7-10 cases that are "low risk" flying in the opinion of most pilots.
 

BJC

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There's also a issue when a married couple die in a plane crash (or car crash, etc) that sometimes potential heirs raise. If one spouse survived (even by a few seconds) it can alter who gets the estate especially if one (or both) have children from a previous relationship.
That is a good example of an undesirable situation that can be avoided with a properly constructed trust and or will.


BJC
 

SVSUSteve

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That is a good example of an undesirable situation that can be avoided with a properly constructed trust and or will.


BJC
This is very true although it's almost always overlooked by both attorneys. My new wife is one and wasn't aware (or probably forgot since she doesn't practice that sort of law) of how frequent this problem comes up even though she took courses in wills etc. That said....I don't mind too much. My nonprofit organization is going to get paid by the hour and we get more funding the longer both sides remain recalcitrant, greedy little b*st*rds.
 

SVSUSteve

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https://www.kplctv.com/2019/07/24/crop-duster-crashes-south-welsh/

Stuart Robinson was the pilot involved. He is owner of Ag Aviation in Welsh LA. His dad was Jack Robinson, who started the company. My nephew is his only other pilot. The plane was a Air Tractor 503. My nephew also flies a 503. He is one lucky fella.
Air Tractor builds some rugged as **** aircraft. Ugly as sin, but about as safe as you can make an aircraft in terms of your odds of survival. This is a perfect example.

Glad to hear he is okay.
 

choppergirl

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re: crop dusters and low flying planes clipping power poles

I always thought power poles (and fence posts) need something like an upside down pie tin nailed to them. Imagine a big tin can flipped upside down and slipped over the top of the pole and nailed on.

1. It would give the top of the pole a roof, keeping water from seeping down into the grain / cut off the top of the pole. This erodes the top of the pole over decades, so they usually just add more feet at the top of the pole. They attach a lightning grounding wire at the top, so maybe preserving the integrity of the top of the pole would help that.

2. If the roof side skirt was long enough and it and the top painted high visibility white / orange / florescent, etc, it would make the top of the pole (more) visible in the air to low flying aircraft.

3. It would make the top of the pole more visible to aerial surveys and satelite imagery. Maybe even paint a black cross across the top of it, or a weird symbol or pattern not found anywhere else, like the constellation patern of anti counterfeiting anti-photocopying dots found on money.

I just google painting creosote; it can be done, but something like a pie tin I think would last longer and is easier to paint on an assembly line.

If you look at a power pole, the power company actually invests quite a lot of complex work and money into them, esp. at junctions. A tin roof on the top seems a trivial expense.
 

Hephaestus

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I see the tree clip, massive yaw as the tail comes off.

Icons new training video? This is what happens when you fly in less than ideal wx and don't give yourself adequate room...
 

radfordc

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This is a strange one for sure... http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/07/propeller-contact-with-person-cessna.html

Pilot killed by propeller during pre-flight inspection. Ignition key in pilots pocket, mixture control was in the idle-cutoff position, the throttle was full out, the battery and alternator rocker switches were each in the off position. From the pilot's perspective, the ignition switch appeared to be in the off position.
 

TFF

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That’s why you have to treat it live. A P lead just has to brake off. I did not think a Rotax 912 could be hand propped. Plane is an Aircam. Oil tank is higher than engine on ground so you hand turn the prop to pump drained oil back to sump. it Had an open in a P lead. Roared to life. Had another friend pulling a Yak engine through for the owner. Roared to life when he let go of the blade. Pilot left key on. All props are live. I try and turn them backwards when I’m messing with them. Lots of people run through the mad switch before shutting down to see if the P lead fell off during the flight.
 

Bill-Higdon

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That’s why you have to treat it live. A P lead just has to brake off. I did not think a Rotax 912 could be hand propped. Plane is an Aircam. Oil tank is higher than engine on ground so you hand turn the prop to pump drained oil back to sump. it Had an open in a P lead. Roared to life. Had another friend pulling a Yak engine through for the owner. Roared to life when he let go of the blade. Pilot left key on. All props are live. I try and turn them backwards when I’m messing with them. Lots of people run through the mad switch before shutting down to see if the P lead fell off during the flight.
Even when turning backwards treat it like it's hot, I saw 1 where it was turned backwards as the person at the prop let go a mag must have fired, good news he was careful & no one injured
 

bmcj

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ICON down near Mt. Pleasant, MI (Littlefield Lake)

Not only did he clip that last tree with his wing, it looks like he might have brushed the top of another tree (immediately after he did that huge pull up).

There appears to be too much flap used on takeoff, but other Icon videos show the same flap usage during water takeoffs, so I assume it’s normal. I wonder if/when the flaps were retracted?
 

TFF

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I think he pulled his flaps up over the trees. It looks like it’s wallowing like it is slow. He took his lift away too soon. I imagine the flap setting is fine to get off the water, but I bet the procedure is to build speed across the water in water effect, pull flaps up then climb. He was not expecting it to be slow when he pulled the flaps up. Also looks like some type of crosswind or burbling air and when he got above the trees, the wind was not what he expected.
 

BBerson

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I think he pulled his flaps up over the trees. It looks like it’s wallowing like it is slow. He took his lift away too soon. I imagine the flap setting is fine to get off the water, but I bet the procedure is to build speed across the water in water effect, pull flaps up then climb. He was not expecting it to be slow when he pulled the flaps up. Also looks like some type of crosswind or burbling air and when he got above the trees, the wind was not what he expected.
It was descending before the tree. Either in sink, or just couldn't climb in a turn. Sort of like the Karkow crash.
Was this fatal?
 
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