Crashes in the News - Thread

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by choppergirl, Jun 8, 2016.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jun 30, 2019 #2341

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    536
    Location:
    AIR-WAR.ORG ★★☠★★
  2. Jul 2, 2019 #2342

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I’m not sure quite when and where, but here is a Zenith (701?) collapsing its nosegear...

     
  3. Jul 2, 2019 #2343

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,672
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house
    It almost looks like he did that on porpoise!
     
  4. Jul 4, 2019 #2344

    PTAirco

    PTAirco

    PTAirco

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,454
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Corona CA
  5. Jul 7, 2019 #2345

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    536
    Location:
    AIR-WAR.ORG ★★☠★★
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  6. Jul 7, 2019 #2346

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Given the RPM, blade count, and aircraft velocity, I can see maybe 2 to 3 feet of clear space as the plane goes by. In other words, when one blade swings by, the next blade won’t swing by until the plane has travelled another 2-3 feet forward, so it is possible. I’m using my best guesses for this plane (2400 rpm, 3:8 reduction unit, 4 bladed props, and 20% above the 100 mph stall speed).

    However, I know how people like to embellish stories, and given parallax error and the speed at which this happens, I doubt if it really happened that way and I really doubt that anyone can say with certainty that it did, even if they were there with the child.
     
  7. Jul 7, 2019 #2347

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,441
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Slightly less dangerous than Russian Roulette, when using an Automatic.

    The prop will describe a helix, there is space in there to 'safely' pass through, sometimes.
     
    bmcj likes this.
  8. Jul 7, 2019 #2348

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    To borrow a quote from Douglas Adams’ work...

    “Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of.”
     
  9. Jul 8, 2019 #2349

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
  10. Jul 8, 2019 #2350

    narfi

    narfi

    narfi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    317
    Location:
    Alaska
  11. Jul 8, 2019 #2351

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,744
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Location:
    US
    I don't know, but I recall SVUSteve didn't like the 701s from a crashworthiness perspective. You might find some info using his username and 701 or 750 in a search.
    I don't have an informed opinion on 'em.
     
  12. Jul 8, 2019 #2352

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,441
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The Cricket, 601 and 650 had fatal flaws that needed adverse publicity to get addressed. Maybe the 750s have a good record. But Zenair as a whole, no.
     
  13. Jul 8, 2019 #2353

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,744
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Location:
    US
    I'm not aware of any fatal flaw with the 601 (or 601 HD or 601 HDS). Hundreds have flown, no real issues. A little slower than the specs claim, but they are honest handling planes with no structural issues. The 601XL is a considerably different airplane and did have big problems that were not handled well.
     
    mcrae0104 likes this.
  14. Jul 8, 2019 #2354

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I’m not aware of any problems with the 750 (which is not to say that there are no issues), but other Heinz designs have had issues, so I (myself) tend to be wary of his designs. I’ve never flown one, but I have looked at several on the ground, and in my very subjective opinion of his designs, I have not been impressed (purely my personal thought, and not based on anything concrete), but then my opinion has no bearing here.

    Granted, this particular case probably has nothing to do with the design, but is likely an occurrence that could have happened in any plane. The investigation will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  15. Jul 8, 2019 #2355

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Well, shoot. It depends on how people define the term "Safety Record." Number of total accidents? Number of fatal accidents? Number of accidents vs. the number of EAB-registered examples of that type? Number of accidents vs. ALL examples of that type? Number of fatal accidents vs. the number, etc. etc.

    The CH-701, for instance, was touted for a number of years because there had been no FATAL accidents in the type. Then the fatals started occurring.

    I track the fleet accident rate (average number of accidents per year vs. the number of EAB-registered examples) for about forty homebuilt types. Several of those types have fewer than fifty accidents, over the 20-year span of my database, so I don't consider them as accurate. The CH-750 is one of those, having only 22 accidents in its range (only being introduced in the past ten years).
    Here's a plot of the Fleet Accident Rate from my database:
    [​IMG]

    The RVs are coming in towards the lower part of the scale. Is it because they're safer? Or because there are so many of them that individual accident don't have a major factor on their rate?

    The one with the highest rate? It's not the Lancair IV, like a lot of folks might guess.

    There are *reasons* other than being an "unsafe aircraft" why a particular type might show up with a higher fleet accident rate. The Lancair IV value in the above plot is bracketed by a common amphibian and a common steel-tube Rotax-powered aircraft.

    One fun factor is the re-registration policy enacted by the FAA about ten years ago. The Fleet Accident Rate for several types took a bit jump, as old, probably non-existent examples of older models were finally removed from the registration database.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
    bmcj likes this.
  16. Jul 8, 2019 #2356

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,668
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    I think the wings failed on a couple of the RV designs.....
     
  17. Jul 9, 2019 #2357

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,435
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Some planes loose wings no matter, and some planes built in true numbers, like the RV have enough true data to literally put number of accidents over total built and get a true record.

    RV has the presence to give a bulletin to fix the 3 many years after production ended, now restarted. For the aspiring fighter pilots, RV will tell you if you over G their airplanes, any of them, the wings will come off. Planes like the Cirrus VK30 have terrible records; something like 50% of planes completed have crashed for one reason or another. Maybe 20 completed. I know of a project if anyone is interested.

    Safest aircraft in the world is the Bell Jet Ranger. They crash all the time, but per million flight hours, it’s tops. I believe the Ercoupe has the highest landing accidents of GA planes. Mainly because you can’t land it like a plane you have control of the rudder independently. It’s a safety airplane.
     
  18. Jul 9, 2019 #2358

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,441
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The reports I've read on RV wing failures attributed them to excessive g's.
    I've read a few articles suggesting that many small aircraft have low stick forces, they don't require much of a heave to exceed structural strength. If you need 40lb of pull to snap the wings off, you're much less likely to do it than if it takes 10lb. I don't know what RVs are like there.

    The Icon is a 'safe' plane that keeps having mishaps. the Cirrus SR22 had an awful record to start with.
     
  19. Jul 9, 2019 #2359

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,668
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  20. Jul 9, 2019 #2360

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    4,721
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    OK, I probably said too much here, which is not fair to the Zenith line. Let me just say that I’m not a fan of their design aesthetic, and some of the recent examples cited here casts some doubts on the design’s mechanical properties.

    And I’ve not heard any complaints about the 750.
     
    narfi likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white