Crashes in the News - Thread

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by choppergirl, Jun 8, 2016.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jun 23, 2019 #2321

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
    Steel definitely does, probably more than a few bolts in there.
     
  2. Jun 23, 2019 #2322

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,403
    Likes Received:
    2,091
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    Aluminum might not spark but friction might set it on fire. Something was burning. I imagine a ball of aluminum entering the atmosphere would burn up with a big flash.
     
  3. Jun 24, 2019 #2323

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    choppergirl

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,502
    Likes Received:
    512
    Location:
    AIR-WAR.ORG ★★☠★★
    Dang, if only just about everyone on board had been wearing parachutes....



    Anyway, another crash and burn :-(

    Still think, without a spark, no fire. Somethings wrong here.

    For starters, maybe a coating on or embedded chemical compound in runways that would suppress Mechanical Sparks. Ditto on or in steel aircraft parts.

    If I get to chose where to crash, it's going to be into some dirt I can slide a good long distance to a stop in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  4. Jun 24, 2019 #2324

    gtae07

    gtae07

    gtae07

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    Location:
    Georgia
    Parachutes don't help if you're too low to get out.

    You don't need a spark to start a fire--a pair of hot engines with fuel spilling on them will do it.
     
  5. Jun 24, 2019 #2325

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,389
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    Earth USA East Coast
    I think we've went over this before: when an airplane, which will definitely have hard metal parts (landing gear, engine parts, rivets) is sliding over concrete, gravel, or dirt, there will be sparks; they don't need to be visible. There will also be fuel mist and fuel vapor.
     
  6. Jun 25, 2019 #2326

    CharlieN

    CharlieN

    CharlieN

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Vermont USA
    That plane took off, pitched up, stalled and tumbled end over I believe twice and plummeted straight to the ground.
    Everyone onboard had a chute on. Not much you can do when the plane is only off the ground a few seconds.
     
  7. Jun 25, 2019 #2327

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,871
    Likes Received:
    5,728
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Lots of skydiving airplanes suffer from rapid shifts of the CG.


    BJC
     
  8. Jun 25, 2019 #2328

    KAF

    KAF

    KAF

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Missouri
    Many years ago I watched an airplane fold up the nose gear while landing on a grass strip. It stopped in an astonishingly short distance after it was upside down.
     
  9. Jun 25, 2019 #2329

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    374
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    NASA crash tests showed crash on concrete was much more survivable than a crash into dirt. Crash into dirt stopped too fast creating killer G loads and much more structural deformation. Lots of variables and exceptions.
     
  10. Jun 25, 2019 #2330

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
    Icon a5 flipped after landing with gear extended on lake in Kelowna yesterday.
     
  11. Jun 25, 2019 #2331

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
  12. Jun 25, 2019 #2332

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,403
    Likes Received:
    2,091
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    Seems like for $380,000 they could install an alert that announces: "gear down for asphalt landing" when the pilot pulls back the power or something. The LSA rule was for simple aircraft without retracts. The exception for seaplanes hardly makes the type safer.
     
  13. Jun 25, 2019 #2333

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
    I really have to bite my tongue hard on commenting on the A5. The fact that it's us registered but operating in Canada, just a hunch because transport Canada didn't give them the same leeway as it got in the US...
     
  14. Jun 26, 2019 #2334

    davidb

    davidb

    davidb

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    413
    Location:
    Vacaville, CA
    Not sure, but it likely has some sort of safety alert. The SeaRey alert function is triggered by airspeed and throttle setting typical for approaches to landing. When it senses a landing approach, it directs the pilot to push the water or runway button then confirms the gear is in the correct position. Alas, we are humans and capable of errors despite even the most sophisticated alert systems.
     
    BBerson likes this.
  15. Jun 26, 2019 #2335

    Charles_says

    Charles_says

    Charles_says

    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    17
    "Emergency crews say the plane is not leaking fuel.....
    and they are trying to determine their next steps."

    ...Trying to determine their next steps???? How many steps are there???

    Lessee...... there's getting the plane out of the water, getting the plane out of the water, and getting the plane out of the water....

    WOW !! That many steps. Who'd -a thunk?
    Ugh! ... Reporters. Clueless!
     
  16. Jun 26, 2019 #2336

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,871
    Likes Received:
    5,728
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    A local municipal emergency response crew totaled a Cessna on floats while trying to upright it following a flip over in a local lake. Their focus was “get the plane out of the water.” Unfortunately, they knew nothing about aircraft structures, and did not bother to take the time to find out how to accomplish their goal without further damaging the airplane.


    BJC
     
  17. Jun 26, 2019 #2337

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
    Guaranteed it's leaking fuel and oil being upside-down. But what do I know ;)

    It's upside down in the water, it's a total loss to an insurance company anyway, in a car in a flood if your floorboards have gotten wet it's getting a salvage title - not rebuildable. I doubt a complex aircraft would get a pass. A 50/60s Cessna is pretty basic, an icon a5 - not so much.

    But getting tow operators who know aircraft, and insurance companies (don't forget there's going to be a US vs Canada argument involved) to agree and work at resolving it...
     
  18. Jun 26, 2019 #2338

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Ideally, since the plane isn't leaking fuel or oil, they'd like to get the plane out of the water without breaching any of the tanks and starting a spill. So I think a bit of research into how to do that isn't a bad idea.

    In the same vein, they may be limited in the capability of whatever hoists/cranes are available. A 1500-pound aircraft full of water weighs far, FAR more than 1500 pounds... unless you are very, very careful.

    So I don't fault the emergency crews' reluctance to just wrap a log chain around the tail and haul it out.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  19. Jun 26, 2019 #2339

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    YMM
    The lakes a big recreation area, multiple cranes on barges in the area. The local towing company (staffed by some faces formerly of a tv show) has the equipment and usually hosts the annual wreckmaster aircraft recovery training course, the wreckmaster instructors for that course are also within easy driving vicinity.

    (Yes I have some edumakashion in these fields)
     
  20. Jun 30, 2019 #2340

    Cunning_Runt

    Cunning_Runt

    Cunning_Runt

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    bmcj likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white