Crashes in the News - Thread

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by choppergirl, Jun 8, 2016.

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  1. May 22, 2019 #2261

    BBerson

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    In about a week the preliminary NTSB report should give the comments from the surviving pilot, I hope.
     
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  2. May 23, 2019 #2262

    Turd Ferguson

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    I presume you are referring to the collision between a C-525 and a C-150 at Marion, Indiana (MZZ). That's quite a list of assumptions and speculative comments about what caused the accident and it disagrees somewhat with the factual findings of what is known thus far. It is apparently a complex accident as the NTSB has not yet issued a final report with the investigation closing in on 14 months now. I do agree it's a tragic event, one that is pretty close to home for me.
    https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20180403X00427&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
     
  3. May 23, 2019 #2263

    Wanttaja

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    Preliminary report on the Alaskan midair is out.

    https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20190514X70427&AKey=2&RType=HTML&IType=MA

    "Preliminary flight track data revealed the DHC-3 was traveling southwest about 3,700 ft mean sea level (msl) and gradually descending at 126 knots (kts) when it crossed the east side of the George Inlet. The DHC-2 was traveling west/southwest about 3,350 ft msl at 107 kts when it crossed the east side of the George Inlet. The airplanes collided about 3,350 ft msl near the west side of the George Inlet, east of Mahoney Lake, and data signals were lost. "

    "The DHC-3 pilot stated the flight from the Misty Fjords area had proceeded normally, and he had descended and was maneuvering the airplane to show passengers a waterfall near Mahoney Lake when the collision occurred. He had not observed any potential conflicting traffic on his flight display that included Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) system data. He last recalled looking at his ADS-B display when he was flying over Carroll Inlet. Just prior to the collision, he saw a flash from his left side, and experienced a large, loud impact. "

    Flight track on the preliminary is basically the same as the one I've posted previously.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  4. May 23, 2019 #2264

    BBerson

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    I would have asked that Otter pilot if they were reporting checkpoints (such as waterfall) on 123.6 or other frequency.
    I remember flying through Canada (Yukon) where everybody and everywhere was on 123.6 and you could talk to anyone.
    One time I was about to enter a pass and saw a twin fly out. I called "how is the pass".
    He answered: "soft as a babies butt and twice as smooth"
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  5. May 23, 2019 #2265

    BBerson

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    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  6. May 24, 2019 #2266

    bmcj

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    Where did you see 3300 ft in 5 second?

    If you read that somewhere, then I would guess that ‘seconds’ was supposed to be ‘minutes’, unless they had somehow recorded the plummet of the Beaver fuselage, and even that would be doubtful.
     
  7. May 24, 2019 #2267

    BBerson

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    The DHC-3 pilot said he crashed 5 seconds after impact.

    "Just prior to the collision, he saw a flash from his left side and experienced a large, loud impact. According to the pilot, the DHC-3 airplane then rolled right and pitched about 40 degrees nose down toward the water in George Inlet. He said he was able to maintain some control of the aircraft prior to impacting the water about five seconds after the collision. The pilot said some passengers and bystanders helped the passengers of the DHC-3 evacuate the airplane and move to the shore."
     
  8. May 24, 2019 #2268

    bmcj

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    I see it now. I’m sure that must be a misquote or a misstatement (perhaps from a shock-induced error in time perception), not only for the reason you stated (altitude loss), but also because the NTSB brief showed his landing point about a mile from the point of impact.
     
  9. May 24, 2019 #2269

    pictsidhe

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    I'm not thinking of the balls, I'm thinking of marking the poles. There would be objections fron Joe public to the installation of balls on every wire. It would also be a big expense and effort. But a fixed orange disc on the top of each new pole would give a half awake pilot a clue that there are wires around, and still be fairly low cost and unobtrusive from the ground. I can't see it happening unless is was a legal requirement, though.
     
  10. May 24, 2019 #2270

    pictsidhe

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    Judging by the number of survivors, he managed something resembling a landing.
     
  11. May 24, 2019 #2271

    BBerson

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    Yes, I imagine the floats were ripped and dangling causing a high drag descent. Not 5 seconds but perhaps 2000fpm which might take about 90 seconds.
     
  12. May 24, 2019 #2272

    BJC

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    The theory of the legal dept at CP&L was that installing the orange balls would be an admission that the wires and poles / towers are a hazard.


    BJC
     
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  13. May 24, 2019 #2273

    bmcj

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    Perhaps he said 50 seconds (numerical typo), but that seems an unusually specific measurement for a single pilot in an emergency situation. 50 seconds might be enough time to cover his travel distance.
     
  14. May 24, 2019 #2274

    BBerson

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    If the waterfall is at 3300 feet.... and they both were making a bee line to the waterfall....
    they were likely looking for the waterfall not the screen. Just speculation, of course, but I imagine the NTSB does plenty of speculating as they go.
     
  15. May 24, 2019 #2275

    Wanttaja

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    Looking at the Ketchikan sectional, the hills between the George Inlet and Ketchikan itself top out at ~3400 feet on that side of the penninsula. Suspect the waterfall is much, much lower.

    From the NTSB report, the implication is that the pilot didn't have audio alerts for ADS-B enabled. As I mentioned earlier, these would probably be considered distractions by pilots carrying sight-seers.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  16. May 24, 2019 #2276

    BBerson

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    The alerts should be in the pilots headphone only. It's useless if pilots are turning it off.
    Actually, all the signals could come through the headphones so the pilot can keep his head up outside instead of looking at the screen.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  17. May 30, 2019 #2277

    Daleandee

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  18. May 30, 2019 #2278

    bmcj

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  19. May 30, 2019 #2279

    bmcj

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  20. May 30, 2019 #2280

    radfordc

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    I was trying to think what kind of seaplane uses "retractable pontoons". But as usual, the reporter got it wrong. It was a Beaver on floats and it appears he forgot to retract the "wheels".

     

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