Crash rate ?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Speedboat100, Aug 15, 2019.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 16, 2019 #41

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Charles_says and SVSUSteve like this.
  2. Aug 16, 2019 #42

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I hate to say it, but it's almost a "buzzword bingo" sort of situation. The OP uses a lot of terms to claim there's something wrong with the Evektor, but doesn't seem to understand what the terms actually mean or whether the features stated are actually out of the ordinary. "Adverse Yaw," "Area Rule," "Rudder authority," "Bigger rudder," "straight wing," etc.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
    BJC and SVSUSteve like this.
  3. Aug 16, 2019 #43

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    I almost broached that but figured that he was already badly confused since he was conflating the blanketing of the rudder by the elevator with "prop wash".

    It seems like Speedboat really needs to go read up on aerodynamics and light aircraft design before this conversation goes much further. I would suggest Raymer's "Simplified Aircraft Design" and Thurston's "Design for Flying" as starting points.
     
  4. Aug 16, 2019 #44

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,353
    Likes Received:
    6,129
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Charles_says and SVSUSteve like this.
  5. Aug 17, 2019 #45

    Aerowerx

    Aerowerx

    Aerowerx

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Location:
    Marion, Ohio
    High performance aerobatic planes are supposed to be marginally stable, like fighter aircraft, in order to get the needed maneuverability. In fact, modern jet fighters are so unstable that they can not be flown by the pilot. The pilot tells the computer what he wants and the computer does the actual flying.
     
    Charles_says and SVSUSteve like this.
  6. Aug 17, 2019 #46

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,353
    Likes Received:
    6,129
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Agree with that, but I don’t understand how that relates to my post that you quoted with your post.


    BJC
     
  7. Aug 17, 2019 #47

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe

    Right...but a rudder like that causes a roll to left if you wanna turn right. Adverse roll perhaps ?
     
  8. Aug 17, 2019 #48

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe

    I know that "poor mans area rule" is actually pressure gradient matching ( in subsonic aeroplanes ) ! It is a bit sad that none of you understood this phenomena.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  9. Aug 17, 2019 #49

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe

    No way to tell...but loss of directional control was the issue in many cases ?
     
  10. Aug 17, 2019 #50

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe

    Can you enlighten us with those design factors ?

    I can see here ( english summary ) that 96 km/h stall speed is also very dangerous ( Cora 200 Arius F ): https://turvallisuustutkinta.fi/mat.../2013/e9Oc5u25v/Tutkintaselostus_L2013-03.pdf

    A very dear friend of mine perished in this as a passenger.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  11. Aug 17, 2019 #51

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Wanttaja

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I assume you're referring to an aileron-like effect when the rudder moves, but how is it different on the Evektor than any other airplane? If you're claiming the plane's rudder is too small, would it have LESS of the "Adverse Roll" effect you're concerned about?

    In any case, in just about all normally-configured aircraft, pressing a rudder causes the plane to roll IN THE DIRECTION of the rudder press, not "adversely."

    I normally don't ask this, but I think this time I must: What is your level of flight experience? I'm sorry, but a lot of your questions seem to deal with obscure theory without seeming to understand how airplanes actually work.

    Your sneering reference to those who are honestly trying to answer your questions ("It is a bit sad that none of you understood this phenomena") makes you look a bit trollish. It looks more like you're just trying to bad-mouth an aircraft rather than seriously discuss the issues.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
    SVSUSteve likes this.
  12. Aug 17, 2019 #52

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe
    Ron the position of the rudder is well above the centerline of the short fuselage...it is pure physics. My flying hours are irrelevant in this. They are very low..mostly R/C models.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  13. Aug 17, 2019 #53

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe
  14. Aug 17, 2019 #54

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Yeah....about that...

    That explains almost this entire discussion and why you’re not grasping how real planes work which we have repeatedly explained to you.

    I am sorry about your friend but you’re doing a disservice by being stubborn and refusing to listen to those with more knowledge and applicable experience. The only thing that you’re doing is making it pointedly clear that you don’t even understand the most basic “physics” of how an airplane flies.
     
    pictsidhe, Charles_says and Wanttaja like this.
  15. Aug 17, 2019 #55

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe
    Hand on the bible SVSUSteve...would this make the directional stability worse or better ?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Aug 17, 2019 #56

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,353
    Likes Received:
    6,129
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Sigh ...
    Select “Speedboat100”
    Select “ignore”
    Give up trying to assist ...


    BJC
     
    SVSUSteve likes this.
  17. Aug 17, 2019 #57

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe

    Sorry BCJ. You wanted to teach me...and not advance aviation safety...I am sorry.
     
  18. Aug 17, 2019 #58

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe
    Here is a good and sound vertical stab and a rudder.

    Does someone disagree ?

    Tapered wings and a large rudder.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Aug 17, 2019 #59

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Yup. I’m out.
     
  20. Aug 17, 2019 #60

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Europe
    Yes I am sorry...I understand that I have not used the correct term for adverse roll...and SVSUSteve has a good point about the planketing.

    I only try to enhance the safety...with limited means...seeing what I see is wrong...and reading what clearly indicates a problem.....and speaking openly about it.

    I find this as a fine example of a low wing well organized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Aviation_Bulldog



    ...and where is Autoreply these days ?
     

Share This Page

arrow_white