# For SaleCraigslist

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#### billyvray

##### Well-Known Member
Nope. That's just an unregistered aircraft now. Might have been a trainer in the old days, but there wasn't any grandfathering - there was a window to get registered, and now that it's passed, you'd have to find a DAR that would sign it off and register it to you experimental LSA.
I could be wrong, but I'd be pretty surprised.

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Anyone looking for a trainer ultralight? Owner claims this one has been officially grandfathered in as a dual-place. Timing does not seem to match,but may be worth a phone call.

Derswede
Hmmm... pictures appear to show two or three different aircraft. No N-number, and a seller who obviously knows nothing about it but read some old sales literature. Scrap metal value with maybe one or two useful parts.

#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
Paging Dr. Wanttaja, paging Dr Wanttaja

Dr., your patient is ready for sale and restoration!

Derswede (and I have a 65hp Conti nearby just waiting for you!)
Interesting. The plane was built in Canada (Previous registration C-GQYN) and originally had an O-200.

The US owner (identified in his ad for the airplane on Barnstormers) is listed as owning 11 aircraft, but the Fly Baby isn't listed. My guess is that he bought the plane for its O-200. If that's the case, he may not have bothered with getting the builder's log and other information that a person would need to get the plane licensed in the US.

So as it sits, it's probably not licenseable in the US. But it *would* make a dandy delux kit for building your own Fly Baby... re-use the engine mount and other welded components, instruments, fuel tank, landing gear, etc. etc. etc. The turnbuckles alone are worth about \$1500.

Ron Wanttaja

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Ron, he says he has logs. Would it be that difficult to re-license if logs are present? They may be Canadian logs, but would at least have a history. Owner said he bought it for the 0 time Conti 85, so that makes me suspicious as to provenance, tho the PO may have done the swap. I will look at it after things calm a bit.

Derswede

#### plncraze

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Especially the big Turnbuckle in the cockpit! Keep thinking 51%, 51%...

#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
Ron, he says he has logs. Would it be that difficult to re-license if logs are present? They may be Canadian logs, but would at least have a history. Owner said he bought it for the 0 time Conti 85, so that makes me suspicious as to provenance, tho the PO may have done the swap. I will look at it after things calm a bit.
Logs will be good if they're the BUILDER logs. If they're flight logs, they're no help.

To get this plane licensed as an Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft in the US, you need to prove that it meets the 51% rule. Having a Canadian homebuilt certificate is not enough.

Ron Wanttaja

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#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
Ron, he says he has logs. Would it be that difficult to re-license if logs are present? They may be Canadian logs, but would at least have a history. Owner said he bought it for the 0 time Conti 85, so that makes me suspicious as to provenance, tho the PO may have done the swap. I will look at it after things calm a bit.
One of the Fly Baby crowd found it listed in Flightware as late as February of this year (under its Canadian registration) so it's possible the FAA database doesn't show it yet.

Another of the group said he saw it listed for sale, complete, several weeks ago and the plane was sporting an N-Number.

Ron

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#### WWhunter

##### Member
In regards to the T-bird, I may be misinformed, but I think for it to be legal it had to have been registered by a certain to date. It requires an N-number to be flown under LS. I would tread very lightly on this offering. I think the T-bird is also to heavy to be put into the UL catagory with even if converted into a single seater. I friend here had a couple.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Every version of the T-Bird I looked at seemed to be a Fat ultralight. Concentrating on the CGS Hawk at the moment., speaking with some friends in the flat knit/woven industry about unshrunken Dacron. Trying to get a roll or two. Will let the collective know if I can find a deal. Need it for the Hawk, will recover the wings after I get the engine gone thru.

Derswede

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
T-birds are heavy and don’t enjoy the sprightly performance that most ultralights have.

I sometimes hear mention of grandfathered N-numbered fat ultralights as being needed for training, but aren’t they registered as Experimental and not SLSA? Ours were registered as E-AB before the whole LSA thing came into fruition. As E-AB, it can’t be used commercially, so the only training that can be done is training of the owner, and possibly others if done for free? We trained in ours, but it was done under an FAA LODA.

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#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
2 seat and fat ultralights that couldn't be shown to meet the 51% rule for E-AB could be registered as E-LSA during the now expired transition period. If you had build logs showing 51% (or had a very cooperative DAR) it can be registered E-AB with no time limit. Either way, it's experimental, and so can't be used commercially without a LODA.

#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
Another of the group said he saw it listed for sale, complete, several weeks ago and the plane was sporting an N-Number.
Alan Lail took this picture of the plane sporting its N-Number. This is definitely the plane in the Craigslist/Barnstormer's ad, and is the one that was formerly registered in Canada. The plane was built in the US in the '70s, with the original N- Number N23715 .

FAA records show it as having Experimental Amateur-Built certification, so it should be good to go.

Ron Wanttaja

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Anyone looking for a trainer ultralight? Owner claims this one has been officially grandfathered in as a dual-place. Timing does not seem to match,but may be worth a phone call.
It may have been converted to an LSA - hard to say from the ad because whoever wrote the ad doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable about aviation in general. I certainly wouldn't buy it for that reason without a lot of due diligence.

#### proppastie

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
and could be a scam.....do not buy unless you have inspected it and unless it really is where the post says it is.

#### fly2kads

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The ad for the border-crossing Fly Baby has been taken down. Hopefully that means it found a good home!

#### pwood66889

##### Well-Known Member
"Alan Lail took this picture of the plane sporting its N-Number. "
Zat the Alan Lail that lives in Georgia now after leaving the Vancouver, Washington, area?

#### Bill-Higdon

##### Well-Known Member
"Alan Lail took this picture of the plane sporting its N-Number. "
Zat the Alan Lail that lives in Georgia now after leaving the Vancouver, Washington, area?
Alan lail AKA the "Fed Baron"

#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
"Alan Lail took this picture of the plane sporting its N-Number. "
`Zat the Alan Lail that lives in Georgia now after leaving the Vancouver, Washington, area?
Don't know, he's one of the members of the Fly Baby Facebook page...he posted the picture, and I wanted to give him credit for it.

Ron Wanttaja

#### pwood66889

##### Well-Known Member
Alan lail AKA the "Fed Baron"
Could be, as he was one of their menions. Had a white Ercoupe at one point. Flew formation with him once.

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