# Corvair engines

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#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
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Pietenpol no doubt was looking for a better option than Model A at a reasonable cost, but he bought his first engine from a Chevrolet dealer. The Nader thing (and hence the abundant supply and low cost) came later.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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Chevy Corvair had the swing rear axles until the end of the 1964's, if I remember correctly. VW used the swing rear axles until 1969, but used the IRS on the 1968's with the auto-transmission. Wonder why R. Nader didn't include VW ?
I liked the 1965's and up, nice little cars.
At the time Corvair's when were built, I didn't live very far from the factory. Lots of neighbors work there.

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
curious if anybody knows suggested TBO on 110 horsepower and what the minimum compression would be?
I think I recently read a post by William Wynne that stated 1500 hr suggested TBO on his kits.

#### patrickrio

##### Well-Known Member
My dad had a 1963 Corvair and my mother had a 1965 VW beetle, both with swing axles.

Only one of those cars went through an intersection backwards 3 times. The combination of HP, weight balance, suspension stiffness/sway and geometry specifics (and maybe my dad's young man aggressive driving?) meant it was the Corvair that did more unexpected maneuvers. When my dad drove the VW, it didn't have major handling hiccups.

Nader clearly had a horse in the race, and was not even handed in his criticisms (and maybe fame did go to his head...). But based on my closely available evidence, there was definitely something additional to the swing axle issue that made the Corvair do more weird s**t.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
I still have a Triumph Spitfire. It’s the first car I ever bought. Was driven home from hospital from being born in a 60 Corvair. I once wanted a swing arm car collection. Still would be cool.

Bite off on an auto engine powered plane, you bit off on an engine hobby too. It’s now not just a flying hobby. The Piet is the classic original auto engine homebuilt. It was designed for the purpose. The engine being discussed is old school as originally conceptualized. The first of Bernie’s may have had the fan but the one at Oshkosh, his last, doesn’t if I remember right. Dial your thinking back to the correct time period or you will always be disappointed. Vintage homebuilt with mid vintage engine. It’s not good or bad. It is what it is. And every airplane is.

#### Doran Jaffas

##### Well-Known Member
I think I recently read a post by William Wynne that stated 1500 hr suggested TBO on his kits.
Well ladies and gentlemen it is now a moot point. After sending him money as a down payment he told me that once he gets it running he was going to jack the price up 4, 000.00. He also said he was only sending part of my down payment back due to the fact that I offered to pay for the condition inspection in the first place. you never said that the engine did not run before I sent him the earnest money and offered to do the condition inspection and he never said that he was going to jack the price up on the airplane $4,000 once he got it running. I can afford to loss but this way of doing business in aviation is like an infected sore in something so special that we have the privilege of doing. I appreciate everybody who responded as I did learn quite a bit about the engine and would not hesitate to fly behind one. Maybe I'll get a different airplane in the future in addition to my Tailwind but what I plan to do now is put the money I was going to spend on this airplane into my Tailwind to really sprucing it up not only on the outside but doing a few things to make sure everything is like new mechanically. it's already in great shape but there can always be improvements. Still, if somebody comes up with a little too place open cockpit from a Volkswagen to anything else that is able to fly with the doors off for a reasonable price I wouldn't mind hearing about it. Even if it's a project. Thanks again everyone and looking forward to reading more of your remarks on the various topics on this forum. #### TFF ##### Well-Known Member I think it’s worth the gas money to fly over and cuss him out. Make loosing the money worth it. That guy is a hole for everything not just aviation. #### Doran Jaffas ##### Well-Known Member I think it’s worth the gas money to fly over and cuss him out. Make loosing the money worth it. That guy is a hole for everything not just aviation. I appreciate the support. Probably won't do that but there is a couple of other things that might put a stop to his shenanigans. Again I appreciate the support.. just don't think anybody like that should be an aviation. I'm looking at another airplane now I just got off the phone and talk to somebody about it. Just a puddle jumper for messing around on warm summer days or evenings. A VP2. #### reo12 ##### Active Member Well ladies and gentlemen it is now a moot point. After sending him money as a down payment he told me that once he gets it running he was going to jack the price up 4, 000.00. He also said he was only sending part of my down payment back due to the fact that I offered to pay for the condition inspection in the first place. you never said that the engine did not run before I sent him the earnest money and offered to do the condition inspection and he never said that he was going to jack the price up on the airplane$4,000 once he got it running. I can afford to loss but this way of doing business in aviation is like an infected sore in something so special that we have the privilege of doing.

I appreciate everybody who responded as I did learn quite a bit about the engine and would not hesitate to fly behind one. Maybe I'll get a different airplane in the future in addition to my Tailwind but what I plan to do now is put the money I was going to spend on this airplane into my Tailwind to really sprucing it up not only on the outside but doing a few things to make sure everything is like new mechanically. it's already in great shape but there can always be improvements. Still, if somebody comes up with a little too place open cockpit from a Volkswagen to anything else that is able to fly with the doors off for a reasonable price I wouldn't mind hearing about it. Even if it's a project. Thanks again everyone and looking forward to reading more of your remarks on the various topics on this forum.
If you sent money - and it was accepted - before he changed his mind - I believe I recall enough of my business law class from 40+ years ago that the contract for the original price was accepted. He can't change his mind now.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Enforcement may not be worth the trouble.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
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If you run a business with good ethics, you will do good.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
This is a crying shame.

I was raised that a man's word was his bond and a handshake was a confirmation to any agreement. But that was back in the day when law breaking was actually punished with real penalties and not a grown up version of "time out."

Seems we have lost the country ...

#### Doran Jaffas

##### Well-Known Member
I appreciate everyone's support. I did tell him that whatever you sent me back was on his own personal and business integrity and was on his conscience. I could take him to court in his own state but I'm not sure it would be worth it even to make a point at this time. His conscience has to dictate what he does. it is too bad we have people like that in aviation. Aviation to me is extremely special and a blessing. I've been flying or had my license rather for 37 plus years and have absolutely enjoyed every minute of it even though there were times that I wanted to get back on the ground. The folks I've met around aviation have been the best there is and I mean that. They are the best there is with the exception of very very few. Appreciate everybody's feedback and I hope everyone is having a great summer so far and a better one yet to come.

By the way for some of you and this is dating me but I too was raised and a man's word was mine and a handshake was as good as a written contract. if I ever make an agreement with any of you on here please understand the verbal contract is as good as a handshake with me. I will stick to what I say.in the meantime there's a lot of flying to do during the warm weather and some improvements to make on the airplane I already have.

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
I appreciate the support. Probably won't do that but there is a couple of other things that might put a stop to his shenanigans. Again I appreciate the support.. just don't think anybody like that should be an aviation. I'm looking at another airplane now I just got off the phone and talk to somebody about it. Just a puddle jumper for messing around on warm summer days or evenings. A VP2.
A friend of mine has a Fly Baby with a Corvair engine for sale. I think you need to publicize the name of the guy who welched on your deal. No sense letting him scam others...

#### jeffwalin

##### Active Member
Regarding Nader, his book was out in 1965 and the Corvair was produced from 1960-1969. The book used the Corvair in one chapter to highlight what was in his view an unsafe design in the suspension.

Why did Nader pick on the Corvair? GM had over 100 lawsuits pending based upon crashes in Corvairs. It was convenient.

Nader's book was about how the auto industry ignored safety concerns and was largely unregulated when came to safety. There were chapters about how cars were unsafe in other ways (the steering column impaling the driver), about the lack of seat belts, about pollution of automobiles, and about how the auto industry put profits ahead of making safe products.

As a result GM had investigators follow Nader, and tried to discredit him in many ways. He sued them, and won.

from the Wikipedia about "Unsafe at Any Speed" :

"On March 22, 1966, GM President James Roche was forced to appear before a United States Senate subcommittee and apologized to Nader for the company's campaign of harassment and intimidation. Nader sued GM in November 1966 for invasion of privacy.[12][10] He won the case on appeal in January 1970 and was awarded \$425,000, which he used to establish the Center for Auto Safety, a non-profit advocacy group. He went on to lobby for consumer rights, helping drive the creation of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the passage of the Clean Air Act, among others.[13]

Former GM executive and Chevrolet's general manager John DeLorean asserted in his book On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors (1979) that Nader's criticisms were valid."

If you like modern safe cars, you have Nader to thank for that.

Me personally, I don't like an industry operating in an unsafe manner, and they trying to discredit the whistleblowers. I don't like when our Government does that either.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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The real reason was political. Something we can't go into.

#### geraldmorrissey

##### Well-Known Member
Eventually all the crooks make it out to the airport.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I've never heard of an updraft carburetor being mounted on the top of an engine before so I would not even be sure how the fuel would be delivered without a fuel pump misting it into the Venturi somehow. Again though with 350 hours on it it obviously ran on this particular Pietenpol.
It looks like it is running as a downdraft carburetor?
Can it run updraft or downdraft? (just curious, sorry about the flawed transaction)

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
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Slide carbs don't care which way is up. Depending on the manifold it's attached to, its "clock" orientation may influence mixture distribution to the left and right banks.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Slide carbs are not metered by a Venturi. The slide opens up more metering holes the farther the slide is moved. Piccolo tube of sorts. It has to have a certain amount of head pressure or a pump or it does nothing.