composite wing Bagalini Bagaliante ultralight motorglider

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claude.bouzerand

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Hi,some years ago I bought Bagalini Bagaliante 's plans from the Italian designer. i want to be "insured " that its maxi load can be out fitted : on the plans the pilot weight is up 75 KG (165 lbs) I think it was a standard weight for certification (I am around 190 pounds little less...) I intend to build it using Jim Marske's composite construction. His book is very useful with simplified but exact calculation and his calculations very understandable with a very good practical sense !The original method (wood ) is a great state of art but so time consumer even if it is very beautiful: Can you imagine that each ribs'spars are made with four 4mm wood strips glued side by side on a central plywood rib 's "Skeleton".Does someone of this community know some about this plane ? I have tried to find forums, not any success except some very general but not bad, talks . Blue sky
 
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Victor Bravo

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Bonjour Claude,

There is a section in Marske's book that mentions a very significant increase in strength by adding the carbon strips to an existing wood wing spar. I strongly suggest that this is the best approach, as opposed to building a new composite wing. If you build a new wing, you are in fact almost building a new airplane.

I am no engineer myself, but, I am 100% certain the many trained engineers here will agree: strengthening the spar is only part of what is needed to increase the strength of the airplane for a larger pilot. The wing ribs may also need additional strength, the spar for the tail, the attachments of the wings and tail, the "load path" between the pilot seat and the wing spar, etc. etc. etc.

Fortunately, you should have no trouble finding a qualified aircraft engineer, simply walking on the street in Toulouse :)

My comment is NOT intended to frighten or steer you away form making the improvement to the Bagalini, but only to convince you that there are several things that must be done.

I believe that adding one layer of Marske's "Graphlite" carbon rods to the top and bottom of the spar will significantly increase its resistance to bending. The thin (.015-.020") strips of carbon on the top and bottom of the ribs will add significant capability to transfer the wing's "air loads" back into the spar. Depending on the type of airfoil, you may see a large benefit from adding one layer of thin fiberglass to the "sheeting" of the wing leading edge, to deal with increased torsional (twisting) loads from the wing.
 

stanislavz

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I believe that adding one layer of Marske's "Graphlite" carbon rods to the top and bottom of the spar will significantly increase its resistance to bending. The thin (.015-.020") strips of carbon on the top and bottom of the ribs will add significant capability to transfer the wing's "air loads" back into the spar. Depending on the type of airfoil, you may see a large benefit from adding one layer of thin fiberglass to the "sheeting" of the wing leading edge, to deal with increased torsional (twisting) loads from the wing.
And make wood spar heavy in-situ mold :)

Better find carbon dragon building from cf..
 

proppastie

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Better find carbon dragon building from cf..
The Carbon Dragon site link is the Irish web site in my signature block. You can download the plans there.....The Carbon Dragon is mostly wood with CF reinforced areas of spars and other structure, and a Carbon Fiber tail Cone skin...the instructions/plans tell how it was done.......as to weather Marske Graphlite would work better than what was done in the Carbon Dragon is an engineering question not easy for me to answer.
 

stanislavz

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Aug 21, 2016
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Lt
The Carbon Dragon site link is the Irish web site in my signature block. You can download the plans there.....The Carbon Dragon is mostly wood with CF reinforced areas of spars and other structure, and a Carbon Fiber tail Cone skin...the instructions/plans tell how it was done.......as to weather Marske Graphlite would work better than what was done in the Carbon Dragon is an engineering question not easy for me to answer.
Yes, but i do speak about this one special cd https://www.ihpa.ie/carbon-dragon/index.php/cd-builders/phil-lardner-s-cd
 

claude.bouzerand

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Feb 2, 2020
Messages
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Toulouse France
Bonjour Claude,

There is a section in Marske's book that mentions a very significant increase in strength by adding the carbon strips to an existing wood wing spar. I strongly suggest that this is the best approach, as opposed to building a new composite wing. If you build a new wing, you are in fact almost building a new airplane.

I am no engineer myself, but, I am 100% certain the many trained engineers here will agree: strengthening the spar is only part of what is needed to increase the strength of the airplane for a larger pilot. The wing ribs may also need additional strength, the spar for the tail, the attachments of the wings and tail, the "load path" between the pilot seat and the wing spar, etc. etc. etc.

Fortunately, you should have no trouble finding a qualified aircraft engineer, simply walking on the street in Toulouse :)

My comment is NOT intended to frighten or steer you away form making the improvement to the Bagalini, but only to convince you that there are several things that must be done.

I believe that adding one layer of Marske's "Graphlite" carbon rods to the top and bottom of the spar will significantly increase its resistance to bending. The thin (.015-.020") strips of carbon on the top and bottom of the ribs will add significant capability to transfer the wing's "air loads" back into the spar. Depending on the type of airfoil, you may see a large benefit from adding one layer of thin fiberglass to the "sheeting" of the wing leading edge, to deal with increased torsional (twisting) loads from the wing.
Thank you for the reply, and advices.I am working at Airbus...I shared with Jim, it was very interesting,he gave me good advices, with mathematics to confirm ! I intended ,at first to build a Mitchell,Wing B10 with his method, I did calculations and he was ok with me. I am hesitating between these two good.gliders... I like flying wing s( I owned a Bright Star Swift#16) I like the.elegance of the Bagalini Bagaliante, with rather equivalent performances
 

claude.bouzerand

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
27
Location
Toulouse France
The Carbon Dragon site link is the Irish web site in my signature block. You can download the plans there.....The Carbon Dragon is mostly wood with CF reinforced areas of spars and other structure, and a Carbon Fiber tail Cone skin...the instructions/plans tell how it was done.......as to weather Marske Graphlite would work better than what was done in the Carbon Dragon is an engineering question not easy for me to answer.
I have plans and manual of the Carbon Dragon, Jim's method is quicker to build, and really easier for calculations ...(my point of view...) Thanks for your message
 

cluttonfred

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Claude, I can't help with the wing redesign but I wish you well on your project. Over the years I have been able to track down Bagalini Colombo and Baganfibio plans, both ostensibly two-seaters with 65 kg people and two-stroke engines. My solution is to plan on heavier four-stroke engines and consider either one a roomy single-seater for my, ahem, 100 kg self. Unfortunately, since the Bagaliante is a single-seater, you don't have that reserve payload capacity. Cheers, Matthew

bagaliante.jpg colombo.jpg anfibio.jpg
 

claude.bouzerand

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
27
Location
Toulouse France
Claude, I can't help with the wing redesign but I wish you well on your project. Over the years I have been able to track down Bagalini Colombo and Baganfibio plans, both ostensibly two-seaters with 65 kg people and two-stroke engines. My solution is to plan on heavier four-stroke engines and consider either one a roomy single-seater for my, ahem, 100 kg self. Unfortunately, since the Bagaliante is a single-seater, you don't have that reserve payload capacity. Cheers, Matthew

View attachment 108324 View attachment 108323 View attachment 108325
I have plans and manual of the Carbon Dragon, Jim's method is quicker to build, and really easier for calculations ...(my point of view...) Thanks for your message
Claude, I can't help with the wing redesign but I wish you well on your project. Over the years I have been able to track down Bagalini Colombo and Baganfibio plans, both ostensibly two-seaters with 65 kg people and two-stroke engines. My solution is to plan on heavier four-stroke engines and consider either one a roomy single-seater for my, ahem, 100 kg self. Unfortunately, since the Bagaliante is a single-seater, you don't have that reserve payload capacity. Cheers, Matthew

View attachment 108324 View attachment 108323 View attachment 108325
The reason why I hesitate between these two aircrafts!
The article you are presenting has been the more important and precise I've found on the web.It is a well done one and the Bagalini's productions are awesome and in total ad equation with the ultralight 's spirit...! Thanks for your researches' job
 

Sorin

New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
3
Hi,some years ago I bought Bagalini Bagaliante 's plans from the Italian designer. i want to be "insured " that its maxi load can be out fitted : on the plans the pilot weight is up 75 KG (165 lbs) I think it was a standard weight for certification (I am around 190 pounds little less...) I intend to build it using Jim Marske's composite construction. His book is very useful with simplified but exact calculation and his calculations very understandable with a very good practical sense !The original method (wood ) is a great state of art but so time consumer even if it is very beautiful: Can you imagine that each ribs'spars are made with four 4mm wood strips glued side by side on a central plywood rib 's "Skeleton".Does someone of this community know some about this plane ? I have tried to find forums, not any success except some very general but not bad, talks . Blue sky
HI, i own an bagaliante motorglider whith Konig sc 430 engine
Hi,some years ago I bought Bagalini Bagaliante 's plans from the Italian designer. i want to be "insured " that its maxi load can be out fitted : on the plans the pilot weight is up 75 KG (165 lbs) I think it was a standard weight for certification (I am around 190 pounds little less...) I intend to build it using Jim Marske's composite construction. His book is very useful with simplified but exact calculation and his calculations very understandable with a very good practical sense !The original method (wood ) is a great state of art but so time consumer even if it is very beautiful: Can you imagine that each ribs'spars are made with four 4mm wood strips glued side by side on a central plywood rib 's "Skeleton".Does someone of this community know some about this plane ? I have tried to find forums, not any success except some very general but not bad, talks . Blue sky
Hi, I own an bagaliante motorglider whith Konig sc 430 engine but no papers, no plans so I want to buy some plans!
 

claude.bouzerand

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
27
Location
Toulouse France
HI, i own an bagaliante motorglider whith Konig sc 430 engine

Hi, I own an bagaliante motorglider whith Konig sc 430 engine but no papers, no plans so I want to buy some plans!
Hi, for now I don't want to sell the plans but I would be happy to shar help you .You can ask what you want ,it will be a pleasure to reply to your question
 

proppastie

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With today's phones just take pictures of every page and e-mail them .....I do not see how anyone might complain if the plans are no longer able to be purchased.
 

Sorin

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Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
3
Hi, for now I don't want to sell the plans but I would be happy to shar help you .You can ask what you want ,it will be a pleasure to reply to your question
Hi, thanks for your answer, i need some help with the speed range of Bagaliante, VNE, VSO, etc, if you can send me some copies of your project, thank you!
With today's phones just take pictures of every page and e-mail them .....I do not see how anyone might complain if the plans are no longer able to be purchased.
Ok, were i can find the project?
 

Sorin

New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
3
Hi, thanks for your answer, i need some help with the speed range of Bagaliante, VNE, VSO, etc, if you can send me some copies of your project, thank you!

Ok, were i can find the project?
Can you send me on email a copy of your project?
 
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