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clecos

fifidibosco

Active Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2023
Messages
29
Location
France
Hello all,
how many clecos/dia do you think are needed for the building of a Sonerai1 ? Mini, optimum, comfort...
Phil
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
2,087
Location
SC
A lot. I can't give a number but I had a few coffee cans full when building a Sonex ...
 

wsimpso1

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
10,238
Location
Saline Michigan
Why are you asking us?

First level - see what the plans and directions reccommend, if anything:

Second level - consult the build community for this airplane, see what they say;

Third level is to do the manufacturing engineer's estimate. Pull up your big boy/big girl pants, and go to the bill of materials for each assembly. Rivet count for each assembly you will have sitting around in dry fit state is the place to start. Multiply by the fraction of holes you plan to fill with Clecos at any spot in the assembly sequence. Sharply curved lines of rivets (turtledeck to frames, wing skin to ribs, etc) may feel like they need more while long gently curved or flat skins may need a lot less. Oh, and 100% pre-punch, probably no higher than 20% holes with Clecos.

Have fun.

Billski
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
16,767
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
Hello all,
how many clecos/dia do you think are needed for the building of a Sonerai1 ? Mini, optimum, comfort...
Phil
Don’t know about the fasteners needed for the Sonerai, but my experience is that having pliers for both sides of the work item / the workshop saves considerable “hunt and fetch” time.

I buy those types of tools, new and used, from The Yard Store. The Yard


BJC
 

Marc Bourget

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
517
Location
Stockton, California
Hello all,
how many clecos/dia do you think are needed for the building of a Sonerai1 ? Mini, optimum, comfort...
Phil
Phil,

The main goal for assembling sheet metal aircraft is to maintain position of the panels to be joined sufficient to rivet properly. While it's tempting to want a cleeco for every hole, on a fuselage side, I'd install lots of cleecos in the area I was riveting. Areas away from the "worksite" could suffer skipped holes, but in any case WHILE RIVETING YOU CONSTANTLY CHECK ALIGNMENT, NOT ONLY WHERE YOU'RE RIVETING, BUT AWAY AS WELL.

If things start to go "cattywhumpus" you have to find a helper to apply "reverse english" for the next few rivets to restore proper orientation.

Ask other builders if they recall any warping tendencies for your design.

Also, where you can, at appropriate corners, between two bulkheads for example, don't drill, #30 for AD4s, drill at 1/8". It will be a push fit, Sometimes you'll need a small socket on the Manufactured head backing up when you push one out. Don't beat them out from the backside. it stretches things you don't want stretched.

Cleeco's aren't adequate for positioning assemblies - an undriven AD4 does a much better job.

If you're flush riveting, you can put the manufacturer's head on a flat plate and "fatten" the stem using the Rivet Gun VERY CAREFULLY, swelling the stem to fit the approximate .148" diameter a dimpled hole assumes and achieve the same purpose.

There's lots more to these assembly techniques. Back when I was presenting at OSH, teaching in the sheet metal workshop and seminars at Sun'nFun, it was clear that while the OSH workshops taught basic sheet metal techniques, they didn't teach the student how to "build."

Regards,

mjb
 

mcrae0104

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
4,512
Location
KEIK (CO)
HBA seems to have acquired sonerai.net, the former home of Sonerai builder knowledge, and all of those threads are now here at HBA.

As long as @soneraifred is posting here, it would appear HBA is the seat of Sonerai knowledge...

BTW, who is it that actually owns HBA.com, since Jake seems to be gone?
 
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