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BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
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Port Townsend WA
exp for charitable donation?

And when will we ever stop classifying anything we disagree with as socialist/communist? It has about as much validity as talking about 'yo mamma'.
It's closer to fascism. Central government dictating absurd rights to "approved" business activity.

"Fascism is an economic system in which the government controls the private entities that own the factors of production."
 

Pilot-34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
819
The FAA now has some very specific language about those specific questions. You can find it if you look. (Hint: the answer is: you get no credit on the checklist.)
Hummmmm I thought I read my way through the checklist I better go back and take another hint!
 

Pilot-34

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Messages
819
Wait a minute there then theres never a time we can take someone in a plane during business ? Its a catch 22 if we choose to do it we cant because we are choosing to do it?
or do you mean if I had a flyin only lodge I could fly customers in since there wasnt another way to do it?

I gotta tell ya that sounds backwards LOL not that being backwards makes it wrong, it is the government we are talking about so actually that kind proves your point.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
5,528
Location
Upper midwest in a house
Wait a minute there then theres never a time we can take someone in a plane during business ?
No, there are plenty of examples where we can take passengers in business. Imagine a Venn diagram showing all possible relationships between elements. Changing one element can result in a different outcome. The prudent thing to do when one is not sure would be get a legal opinion before doing it.
 

Pilot-34

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Messages
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Have you seen any good conversations on the subject that you would recomend? Honestly while I belive what you said it really muddied that water for me
 

rv7charlie

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Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,370
Location
Jackson
Don't know why the link doesn't work, but just search 'ac20-27g' and you should get a usable link.
 

Pilot-34

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Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
819
No, there are plenty of examples where we can take passengers in business. Imagine a Venn diagram showing all possible relationships between elements. Changing one element can result in a different outcome. The prudent thing to do when one is not sure would be get a legal opinion before doing it.
Do people really do that? get a legal opinion before each flight?
What happens if things changein flight for instance on my way to get a 50 burger I look down and see that a neighbors tractor stuck in the creek is causing flooding on my land and i use the info to save my farm Am I suddenly in trouble?
If its really that complicated is just silly
 

12notes

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Lifetime Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,162
Location
Louisville, KY
Years ago, I was a volunteer glider tow pilot. But since money was changing hands to pay for the tow plane, I needed a commercial license, even though I was not getting paid.
Since 2004, you are allowed to be paid for towing gliders on a private pilot certificate:

14 CFR 61.113 :
"(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. "
...
(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of § 61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle. "

61.69 is just the training/experience requirements for glider towing, and states you can do so with a private license as well.
 

Pilot-34

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Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
819
Don't know why the link doesn't work, but just search 'ac20-27g' and you should get a usable link.
that worked very well indeed
strange that a search for things like "homebuilt aircraft Faa assembly points list" results in nada
 

rv7charlie

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Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,370
Location
Jackson
I agree that there are things about the rule that don't *seem* to make sense. But when you start to wrap your head around what the rule specifically says, it's a bit easier. In that example, you're not 'carrying persons or property *for hire*'. If you travel to a meeting in your a/c, and take a fellow employee along, *and you aren't reimbursed for the flight*, it's legal. But if your company pays you for the travel, then the FAA will likely see part of that reimbursement as payment for carrying a 'person for hire' (your fellow employee).

The general legal tentacles for these kinds of issues extend far outside aviation. My former employer (a gubmnt agency) eventually got so strict that they were refusing to reimburse automobile mileage if any non-employee was in the vehicle for the trip, because the gubmnt got sued when an employee (and his ride-along spouse) were in an accident while on an agency trip, and they tried to hold the gubmnt responsible for the wife's injuries.
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,370
Location
Jackson
that worked very well indeed
strange that a search for things like "homebuilt aircraft Faa assembly points list" results in nada
It's all about your google-foo.
;-)
Seriously; it took several variations on search terms to get the hit I wanted.
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,370
Location
Jackson
Since 2004, you are allowed to be paid for towing gliders on a private pilot certificate:

14 CFR 61.113 :
"(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. "
...
(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of § 61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle. "

61.69 is just the training/experience requirements for glider towing, and states you can do so with a private license as well.
But not in a homebuilt. In a Restricted category a/c (an ag plane, for instance) yes, but in a homebuilt, no. Unless you can talk the FSDO into forgetting that line in their boilerplate...
 

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