Celera 500L (was: More Vaporware)

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Bill-Higdon, Jun 8, 2019.

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  1. Jun 10, 2019 #21

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Bob, am I remembering right... is this aircraft what eventually became of that huge fuselage plug in Harald Buettner's shop way back in the day? I remember he even said it was going to be powered by a V8 engine WITH a car transmission still on it.
     
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  2. Jun 10, 2019 #22

    BoKu

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    Yes, that's pretty much as I remember it as well. I seem to recall that the intended power package was some sort of diesel, but it's been a long time.

    All in all, this appears to be just another project that overestimates the advantages of laminar flow, underestimates the effects of parasitic drag, and doesn't seem to recognize that the most expensive thing in aeronautics is not person-hours, not carbon fiber, but risk.
     
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  3. Jun 11, 2019 #23

    Marc Zeitlin

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    I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and I certainly wouldn't bet a plugged nickel on the success of this airplane meeting its intended goals either, BUT, I will say that _IF_ it could cruise anywhere near it's intended altitude, then it would be cruising at a very low IAS, in which case the reduced induced drag from laminar flow (if it could be maintained) MIGHT be a significant portion of the overall drag.

    We will, of course, never know...

    And if you want risk, well - just get into the manned rocket business :).
     
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  4. Jun 11, 2019 #24

    BBerson

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  5. Jun 11, 2019 #25

    proppastie

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    60K with an internal combustion engine?
     
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  6. Jun 11, 2019 #26

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

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  7. Jun 11, 2019 #27

    rv6ejguy

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    I think the piston manned record was over 56,000 feet set back in the 30s! I believe a Grob went to about 61K just a couple years back finally breaking that.
     
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  8. Jun 11, 2019 #28

    Vigilant1

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    61K ft is right at the Armstrong limit, where blood begins to boil at body temp and that ambient pressure. We need a pressure suit above that, it would get tight inside a Grob!
     
  9. Jun 12, 2019 at 4:03 AM #29

    Andy_RR

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    Well, I missed this thread in my lack of diligence, but I think all this stuff is super cool. I love to see people pushing the edge of what's possible and I see absolutely nothing to ***** about as long as those throwing money at things aren't afraid of disappointment.

    Every time someone tries one of these projects, another data point is born and the world can learn something. Even the Raptor project is full of lessons, some re-learned.
     
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  10. Jun 12, 2019 at 4:06 AM #30

    Andy_RR

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    BTW, that Grob looked pretty amazing. I had the opportunity to have an up close-and-personal examination of an Egrett and it was an impressive bird! The compounded piston engine idea is very interesting!
     
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  11. Jun 12, 2019 at 7:34 AM #31

    bmcj

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    Mods, though the designers are not saying much in advance of this aircraft flying, it is clearly not “vaporware”. Perhaps the thread title can be changed to reflect the name of the plane to make it easier for members to recognize and find it?
     
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  12. Jun 12, 2019 at 8:13 AM #32

    mm4440

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    Hi, I think Boeing has done more than one high altitude piston engined programs. It seem to take 3 stage turbocharging and many inter/after coolers and other heat exchangers. Another company uses a Rotax converted to closed cycle with cooled exhaust gas and LOX onboard. Not much air up there. Useful true airspeed boost, little weather or traffic; A long time getting up and down, safety considerations, etc. May not be practical but most certainly expensive.
     
  13. Jun 12, 2019 at 8:16 AM #33

    mm4440

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    The Voyager engines were developed for one of the Boeing projects.
     
  14. Jun 13, 2019 at 8:48 AM #34

    trifoils

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    There was a single place aircraft by the name of Vmax Probe, designed for a speed record, featured in the book Personal Aircraft Drag Reduction. It looked basically the same with NACA scoop(s) for engine cooling, which did not work adequately for the 100hp two stroke, according to the article. The eyewitness report from the chase plane was that the Probe was indeed fast. Unfortunately it crashed on landing (tip stall / snap roll) with the flaperons deflected. One risk they found during analysis of the airfoil was an untested separation mode with control surface deflection at landing speed / chord / pressure reynolds num. This new aircraft looks like the same concept on steroids. Hope it fares better than the Vmax Probe. Pusher props are for paved runways..... :)
     
  15. Jun 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM #35

    Andy_RR

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    This be it...?

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Jun 14, 2019 at 1:34 AM #36

    trifoils

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    That's it. The entire front fuselage would slide off, exposing the framework that supported the pilot. Unfortunately the builder did not include a roll bar.
     
  17. Jun 14, 2019 at 1:56 AM #37

    pwood66889

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    Thought it was a MiniImp for a second there...
     
  18. Jun 14, 2019 at 4:53 PM #38

    radfordc

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    Nor a helmet!
     
  19. Jun 14, 2019 at 5:14 PM #39

    BJC

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  20. Jun 16, 2019 at 10:39 PM #40

    pwood66889

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    Per another discussion (you can tell I have a lot of computer time today) some times the Kamikaze pilot has a better chance!!! :)
    And Yet... The NTSB report is a good cautionary tale.
     

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