Celera 500l Progress

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qchen98

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Oct 8, 2021
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That’s funny.


BJC
I'm not making this stuff up.


So, we have come up with a simple, yet ingenious, solution (thanks Tan for your brilliance, as usual). We are going to create a closed loop system of small diameter stainless steel tubing that is embedded into the leading edges of the main wing and fore plane, the leading edge of the air intake as well as the aircraft nose. This loop will pull heat from the engine radiator using a heat exchanger. It will be always on, running very low pressure with a small pump to drive it. It will be filled with a solution containing anti-freeze.

There will be dual loops with outbounds on the leading edge and top of the wing and returns on the leading edge and bottom of the wing. This should prevent any runback situation. We will have more details and diagrams later on showing the configuration.

The system will also be thermostatically controlled in order to prevent overheating in warmer conditions.

There will also be another air heat exchanger in the nose just in front of the windshield that we can blow air through that will exit in small vents in front of the windshield in order to provide de-icing for it. This air heat exchanger will be connected to a similar loop coming from the same heat exchanger pulling heat from the engine radiator.

In the wing tanks that are inside the wing strakes we will not only have the stainless tubing built into the leading edges of the strake but we'll also have it inside the tanks with the purpose of keeping the fuel warm. This way you can run regular diesel or jet fuel without adding any Prist in order to prevent the fuel from thickening in the cold temperatures found at altitude.
 

qchen98

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Oct 8, 2021
Messages
110
They can coat the leading edge with Teflon

Now you can heat up the leading edges to 200F with hot diesel. This would quickly cook the bugs, and subsequently, they would all fall off the wing - just like how fried eggs would easily fall off from a non-stick frying pan.
 

PMD

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Martensville SK
This is what is required to be efficient at 30,000 feet with 2 stages of compression and 2000hp. Note the size of the HXs. Scale this down to 500hp but with 3 stages and see the problems of fitting it all in there- with the coolant HXs. They don't have the space IMO. The RED is a big engine in relation to the airframe with 6 turbos and lots of ducting and HXs tacked on.
At the risk of opening another can of fishing bait: this would seem to be a great candidate for fooling around with significant amounts of water injection. Not sure if it could fix issues to get enough MAP from 2 stages for 50k, though.
 

gtae07

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Savannah, Georgia
I'm not making this stuff up.

Raptor is a shining example of how not to design an airplane, a powerplant installation, or a flight test program. Its many issues have been discussed in excruciating detail in other threads.
 

rv6ejguy

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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
They can coat the leading edge with Teflon

Now you can heat up the leading edges to 200F with hot diesel. This would quickly cook the bugs, and subsequently, they would all fall off the wing - just like how fried eggs would easily fall off from a non-stick frying pan.
Peter didn't have a clue about lots of things, including his proposed de-ice system. There wouldn't be even close to enough heat available from the engine coolant to de-ice the wings (and canard) plus heat the cabin and fuel tanks to prevent gelling even if he could find a way to transfer the heat efficiently from metal tubing embedded in the leading edges to the carbon skin. Was another pie in the sky concept like flying this thing from LA to Honolulu... Complete nonsense.
 

rv6ejguy

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At the risk of opening another can of fishing bait: this would seem to be a great candidate for fooling around with significant amounts of water injection. Not sure if it could fix issues to get enough MAP from 2 stages for 50k, though.
Can't carry enough water for cruise flight and this doesn't solve the issue of insufficient pressure ratio available with only 2 stages of compression. Pretty safe to say that Celera isn't going to be cruising at FL500 with a 2 stage turbo system. Post intercoolers, would be lucky to make 50 inches up there with the turbos screaming away at full 4.0 PRs each. The surge and choke margins operating that far up the compressor maps would be extra challenging at 4.0 PRs as well. RED is going to find this all out as they move to flight testing up there.
 

cblink.007

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Jul 7, 2014
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707
Location
Maryland, USA
They can coat the leading edge with Teflon

Now you can heat up the leading edges to 200F with hot diesel. This would quickly cook the bugs, and subsequently, they would all fall off the wing - just like how fried eggs would easily fall off from a non-stick frying pan.
The complexity, weight, thermal inefficiency and impracticality of such a system notwithstanding, care to tell us what aircraft this was proven on in the past?
 

zolotiyeruki

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Apr 13, 2021
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Peter didn't have a clue about lots of things, including his proposed de-ice system. There wouldn't be even close to enough heat available from the engine coolant to de-ice the wings (and canard) plus heat the cabin and fuel tanks to prevent gelling even if he could find a way to transfer the heat efficiently from metal tubing embedded in the leading edges to the carbon skin. Was another pie in the sky concept like flying this thing from LA to Honolulu... Complete nonsense.
At the risk of dragging this thread off topic, could you scavenge enough heat off the exhaust to make a difference? NASA investigated it at one point (https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20090014183/downloads/20090014183.pdf), and found some success.
 

Flyfalcons

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Feb 6, 2012
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Bonney Lake, WA
They can coat the leading edge with Teflon

Now you can heat up the leading edges to 200F with hot diesel. This would quickly cook the bugs, and subsequently, they would all fall off the wing - just like how fried eggs would easily fall off from a non-stick frying pan.
Uh it would do what with the bugs?
 

qchen98

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Oct 8, 2021
Messages
110
Peter didn't have a clue about lots of things, including his proposed de-ice system. There wouldn't be even close to enough heat available from the engine coolant to de-ice the wings (and canard) plus heat the cabin and fuel tanks to prevent gelling even if he could find a way to transfer the heat efficiently from metal tubing embedded in the leading edges to the carbon skin. Was another pie in the sky concept like flying this thing from LA to Honolulu... Complete nonsense.
Of course, there will be enough excessive heat - Isn't his Audi engine always overheating? The Raptor would fly amazingly in known-icing conditions because all the ice build-up on the wing would reduce engine temps and help Peter to reach all of its claimed numbers. In fact, it should be certified to fly only in icing conditions.

If the Audi engine isn't overheating enough, you could just collect all the exhaust from a P&W PT-6!
 

rv6ejguy

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cblink.007

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Not with a diesel running 2 stage turbos. You drop 200-250F across EACH turbine on already cool exhaust. How would you transfer that heat to a composite wing leading edge without risk of bond failure?
Even bleed air off a turbo would be too taxing with this kind of [relatively] small-scale application. We use a standalone shaft-driven compressor on our midwing gearbox for environmental control and the wing deice boots. Not that our two RR AE1107C do not have bleed air to spare, but since the entire nacelle rotates, for the sake of reducing what is already complex in this thing called the V-22 Osprey, we use a standalone compressor, but I digress.

Now back to the vaporware called Celera...
 

sanman

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Feb 24, 2021
Messages
239
Some possible uses for Celera 500L that I haven't heard mentioned: could it be used as a firefighting aircraft or even as a refueling tanker?

The vehicle has huge range, and it also seems to have an efficient interior volume. It even looks like a flying fuel tank.

Next time some wildfire breaks out in California or elsewhere, aircraft like these could shower water onto the affected areas.

The aircraft's long range would also give it a long loiter time that could make it an economical choice for mid-air refueling.
 
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