California Bans Small Off-Road Gas Engines, Including Lawnmowers and Chainsaws

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PredragVasic

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They weren’t busy so I started talking to the manager. She said it’s not uncommon for her to work 2 shifts and never gat cash.
Times they are a-changing…
There are many small businesses in USA where cash is no longer accepted. Some of them see majority of transactions paid for using a mobile wallet (Apple Pay or similar).

That Bob Dylan quote is certainly right.
 

PredragVasic

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It depends. Pipistrel sells a standard electric charging station. The battery tech company behind Diamond's proposed offering sells both a truck solution and standard charging station.
I think the truck solution is a great interim solution.

Tim
While that Pipistrel is truly an exciting proposition, we are realistically at least 15 years away from the moment when batteries will shrink in size, weight and cost to the point where they are reasonably comparable with fossil fuels. And that is if we assume the battery technology development continues at the current pace, with batteries getting smaller, lighter and cheaper every year.

There are two paths that can affect that timeline. One is that we soon hit the physical limits of the chemistry currently used in batteries, and that development progress stops; the other is that a new unexpected breakthrough technology becomes available that allows a radical improvement in capacity/weight/cost/production scale.

Were still in the very early days of reliable electrical propulsion for autonomous vehicles (cars, planes, ships).
 

Daleandee

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SC
Good lord what kind of Hades do you live in? When I first moved to Illinois from Alaska(August 20 1977 20° 12 inches of snow) to Illinois I literally thought I had died and gone to Hades. As I tried to step off the plane onto the freshly paved asphalt in front of the terminal in Decatur Illinois I will never forget that first breath of 99° and 99% humidity.

Your place sounds worse!
Paradise! (except for August) ;)!

We had an ice storm a few years ago, and being on the coast we have to duck a hurricane every few years. I have trees and growth that need to be tended to and a generator that needs exercise now and again. I lived up north in Cleveland for a few years. No thanks! :rolleyes:
 
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speedracer

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Feb 4, 2020
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“It's almost comical to pay with cash nowadays and watch someone struggle to count out change.”
Went to the local Qdoba last week and paid with cash. The girl working the register had to call the manager over because she didn’t know what to do with the money! When the drawer popped open I saw that the change partitions were empty. Fortunately I had correct change so the manager told her to put the change in the little partitions. They weren’t busy so I started talking to the manager. She said it’s not uncommon for her to work 2 shifts and never gat cash.
Times they are a-changing…
GeeZee, where do you live? When I go to the grocery store (in WA.) I see about 25% of the customers paying with cash. I sold an airplane a couple decades ago for 50K. The buyer paid in cash. I declined to ask him what he did for a living - LOL.
 

Daleandee

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GeeZee, where do you live? When I go to the grocery store (in WA.) I see about 25% of the customers paying with cash. I sold an airplane a couple decades ago for 50K. The buyer paid in cash. I declined to ask him what he did for a living - LOL.
My Flight Review yesterday was paid with folding money ... ;)
 

GeeZee

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Feb 25, 2019
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Indianapolis, IN
GeeZee, where do you live? When I go to the grocery store (in WA.) I see about 25% of the customers paying with cash. I sold an airplane a couple decades ago for 50K. The buyer paid in cash. I declined to ask him what he did for a living - LOL.
I’m in a smallish farming community about 20 miles outside of Indy. Believe me rural Indiana is far far from anything cutting edge or trendy, yet even here using cash seems to on the wain. Me, I’m a cash guy too whenever possible.
 

Dennis DeFrange

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George Jetson for president . And don't think by any chance that you better not keep a vehicle that incorperates a distributer and carburator in your fleet . I believe we'll see the day that cell phones , computers ,TV's , ( Electricity) and cars with ECM's die (for who knows) how long . Think about it . Things can get awfully dark .
 

Pilot-34

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Most of me is in IL but my hearts in Alaska
I’m in a smallish farming community about 20 miles outside of Indy. Believe me rural Indiana is far far from anything cutting edge or trendy, yet even here using cash seems to on the wain. Me, I’m a cash guy too whenever possible.
Just bought a plane near there (Liston)
When We sent the carburetor in for rebuild they asked us what kind of fuel we had been using in it because they had never seen anything like the crud in there before.

Quite honestly that area didn’t seem the least bit rural to us
 

Pops

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My Flight Review yesterday was paid with folding money ... ;)
Most people in my area uses cash. About the only ones that don't are under 30's years old.
I have ever had a credit card, just a debit card for on-line purchases only and keep very little money in the account. Last auto loan was buying a new 1969 VW bug for $1868. Never had a house loan and have owned 2 new nice homes. Have owned 13 different airplanes and never had an airplane payment.
If I don't have the money, I don't buy. I had the local bank do a credit check on me. Not listed. Great, just what I want.
 

ToddK

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Shweaty Texas
With the Rotax ETEC engines as my reference, I've come to the conclusion that electronic ignition direct-injection two-strokes pretty much make four-strokes obsolete. So far as I know, there isn't any inherent reason a small electronically-controlled two-stroke couldn't pass the new California emissions standards; mass-produced, they should be as cheap or nearly as cheap as the carbureted variety, but far more reliable. I'd love to see small ICEs make the long-awaited leap forward.

If that happens, loggers will be pretty happy, and small airplane builders will jump for joy. And you won't have to rebuild the carbs once or twice a season.
Custom CNC a provision 8 case, or similar for mounting a gearbox, and a custom ECU/Harness and run it at 90hp and we have a winner.
 

openskeptic

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Aug 25, 2021
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As a lifelong Californian, I am always amazed at the nonfactual beliefs and perceptions about California from non-Californians. (Because of this, I don't pretend to know anything authoritatively about the other 49 states.)

I read that everybody is moving out of California because things are so bad. Yet over the past year my house value went up by about 20%! Higher than the usual 8% average. There is a huge amount of housing development in my area. Maybe someone can explain how that pesky supply and demand thing works, again? I have read for the last 20 years that businesses are moving out of state because the business environment is so bad. Yet the GDP keeps growing and the state maintains its position as the 5th largest economy in the world (if California were its own nation). I read year after year how about half of all US venture capital dollars go to California start-ups? Don't those capitalists and high tech whiz kids know that California is the worst place to start a business?

I compare my taxation experience with others that tell me that my taxes are super high. When we are done they realize that they pay more than I do. The numbers are even worse for them when they consider the real estate appreciation that I enjoy and they don't! For example, recently I was chatting with a guy from a "low tax" state who is paying a little over 2% in property tax on the market value of his house. I pay 0.4%! Albeit, a new homeowner will pay 1% here, and old-timers like me enjoy a lower rate due to Prop 13 and subsequent passed initiatives. My area's sales tax is 7.25%. Not much different from most non-Californians' areas. I have always kept my federal and state income taxes low. Not really that hard to do if you enjoy playing the game of capitalism -- and I do.

One thing I really hate, though, is the noise and pollution from two-stroke leaf blowers. Seems like most of my neighbors hire lawn and garden maintenance companies, so the neighborhood sounds like an industrial zone when I take a walk. It drowns out the bird songs and the sweet hum of an occasional airplane flying over.

I saw this from an news article, "Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) signed a bill Saturday that would require new small off-road engines (SOREs), used primarily for landscaping, to be zero-emission by 2024. According to the California Air Resources Board (CARB), operating a gas leaf blower for an hour can create as much smog-forming pollution as driving a Toyota Camry for 1,100 miles. The agency estimates that the state is home to some 14.4 million SOREs in the residential and commercial lawn equipment sector."

If those zero-emission leaf-blowers are quieter, too, then I will be happier. Of course, used machines will still be in use for many years to come. Many used machines will be imported from outside the state. Probably won't make much of a difference in my lifetime.
 
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GeeZee

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181
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Indianapolis, IN
Just bought a plane near there (Liston)
When We sent the carburetor in for rebuild they asked us what kind of fuel we had been using in it because they had never seen anything like the crud in there before.

Quite honestly that area didn’t seem the least bit rural to us
I’m surprised to hear that, Liston is just a collection of about a hundred houses and has maybe 2 restaurants. Brownsburg isn’t too far from there and is a thriving metropolis. anyway it‘s about an hour from me. Not sure about the crud. We have ready availability of ethanol free mogas. The farmers want to sell corn for ethanol for your gas tank but sure don’t want it in their gas tanks. I’ve been using it in an O-320 for about 8 years now with no problems.
 

Pops

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I live in WV. Please Californians do not move here. You will hate WV. Its so old fashioned that if you loose your wallet in town it will beat you home and all of your money, cards, etc will not be touched. Pass people on the sidewalk and they will say hello and ask "how are you doing today" and really mean it. Don't know anyone that locks their doors at night time. Yep, almost like Mayberry and the sheriff was Andy for a long time.
 

Kiwi303

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Jul 22, 2015
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En Zed. Aka The Shire.
Setting performance standards rather than dictating the engineering path would free up a lot of options.............some of which migh just be better than the?
Thats been an issue ever since the very first emmissions standards were written in the US in the 70's...

Nissans L20A I6 engine WITHOUT emissons control was CLEANER than after the requirement to add EC EGR crap. The problem was rather than set standards which the L20A would have passed as it was, the legislation was written mandating EGR as a means of reducing emissions. But! That stuff reduced efficiency and increased the L20A emissions...

The L24 and L26 shared the same problem, the original equipment was cleaner than the EC fitted US market retrofits.


After so long, don't expect sense to finally rear it's head.
 

Appowner

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Mar 30, 2021
Messages
45
I'm far from an expert but I have played a bit with Lithium batteries in my RC hobby.

One of the things most people forget is modern, rechargeable Lithium batteries are NOT your typical Duracell. Nor are they a NiCd or NiMH. And they should not be treated as such. Lithium batteries come in several different flavors or chemistries. But they all start with Li. The original LiPo should NEVER be connected to a NiMH charger. It could very well blow! I would suspect later chemistries might suffer in a similar manner.

Lithium cells provide 3 to 3.3 volts per cell depending on chemistry. So a 9.9 volt Li consists of three cells. When charging these cells must be kept in balance. i.e. same charge level. Therefore a Lithium charger actually charges each cell independently and adjusts the charge voltage and current for each cell to keep them balanced. Batteries for vehicles have a charge circuit built in to accommodate the vehicles system.

Using the wrong charger on Li could result in the cell balance going way off resulting in a battery self destruct. And way off is not as much as you might think. What if anything that battery takes with it depends on several factors. But in the RC world I know of Li batteries, like the kind used for your kids RC car taking out entire cars, garages and even houses. Technically it's an explosion but it's more like a poof than a boom. The danger is the resultant fire which is intense and does not respond well to the water most people throw on it first. If they catch it because usually the battery was left on charge overnight.

My RC Lithium batteries are charged inside a fireproof bag designed for this. The bag is inside a metal 50 cal ammo box. And if inside the house it will be at the bottom of a metal garbage can and I will be in the room to keep an eye on it. Outside the ammo can goes to the far corner of the back deck. The charger is the kind that shuts off automatically.

The safest ones out there right now are LiFe.

So if you're going to play with Lithium batteries, learn how to do it right and then ALWAYS do it right. The life you save and all that....
 

Pops

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Work good IF you play by the rules.
I also have some electric RC airplanes.
 

speedracer

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Feb 4, 2020
Messages
187
Most people in my area uses cash. About the only ones that don't are under 30's years old.
I have ever had a credit card, just a debit card for on-line purchases only and keep very little money in the account. Last auto loan was buying a new 1969 VW bug for $1868. Never had a house loan and have owned 2 new nice homes. Have owned 13 different airplanes and never had an airplane payment.
If I don't have the money, I don't buy. I had the local bank do a credit check on me. Not listed. Great, just what I want.
I'm with you, pops. The last car or mortgage payment I made was in 1980. I sold my house and built my present one with the profits. When I want a car I buy a total from the insurance company at Copart Auto Auctions and fix it (If you can build an airplane you can UNtotal a car). Presently a nice Mercedes for my wife, a Corvette for me plus a Prius and a Dodge 4X4 pickup, all reconstructed totals. Second best thing to being rich is looking rich - LOL.
 
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