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Speedboat100

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Horten and Prandtl did arrive at similar solutions. There are pictures of them together, but no evidence that they ever collaborated. We have flown both spanloads, currently the P is working better.
Horten brothers were totally uneducated sailplane fanatics. Prandtl never even realized a flying wing could be made.
 

Red Jensen

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So he claims.

Anyway...as you suggest the wing is the thing...now lets put man inside..it needs a long chord in the middle. What does the spanload look now in of the each three examples ?
Juke,

You are locked into the elliptical way of thinking. Platform alone does not dictate spanload. Please, for everyone’s sake, read and UNDERSTAND the paper before commenting further.

Hint: We use twist to vary the spanload.
 

Aerowerx

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Here a graph shows that straight wing has elliptical spanload whereas swept has always e spanload.
<Insert Deep Sigh Here>

Read and understand this....

He started with an ELLIPTICAL wing shape to begin with. That is why it had an elliptical distribution. It has nothing to do with being straight. And he shows in the video that when the wing was swept, the distribution changed, so how can you say that it is elliptical when straight and ALSO elliptical when swept????

Read and understand the this ^^^^^
 

Speedboat100

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<Insert Deep Sigh Here>

Read and understand this....

He started with an ELLIPTICAL wing shape to begin with. That is why it had an elliptical distribution. It has nothing to do with being straight. And he shows in the video that when the wing was swept, the distribution changed, so how can you say that it is elliptical when straight and ALSO elliptical when swept????

Read and understand the this ^^^^^
Ok...non swept is better than straight as a term to describe what he was trying to push through. I am just at awe how come he became into totally different cocnclusion as Al Bowers with 24 years of experience on the subject.
 

Speedboat100

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Juke,

You are locked into the elliptical way of thinking. Platform alone does not dictate spanload. Please, for everyone’s sake, read and UNDERSTAND the paper before commenting further.

Hint: We use twist to vary the spanload.

Are you saying the twist is enough to keep the plane direction straight when one engine is out and you have two ? You certainly need the split aileron ( brake device ) ...but will it damage the aerodynamics into a state where the plane no longer can sustain decent flight ?
 

pictsidhe

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Ok...non swept is better than straight as a term to describe what he was trying to push through. I am just at awe how come he became into totally different cocnclusion as Al Bowers with 24 years of experience on the subject.
That's easy, he has a website that calculates stuff for him. No need for theory when you have a website!
 

Speedboat100

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I believe it is safe to say Al Bowers has put more years, and more brain cells, more mathematical calculations, and more study into flying wings at this point than all of the original nurflugel pioneers put together.

He has also had the benefit of seeing all of this from a unique vantage point (no bombs falling on the factory, a lot more complete body of scientific data on file, the ability to analyze all this using modern flow-vis and modeling, and with all of existing history at his disposal to research).

So if he has developed a theory, or has boiled down all this history and hundred year old math down into a set of equations, I tend to believe it as being far closer to the gospel than anyone else's opinion.

Anyone and eveyone interested in flying wings, Horten/Northrop stuff, and how air really wants to flow around an airplane wing... PLEASE take the time to come and meet Al, hear his presentations, and hold the fire under him for answers... at the ESA western workshop on Labor Day in Tehachapi, CA. You will never regret being at this event.
I think he ought to let us have a well studied flying wing for all to fly.

I assume Hortens bros also studied bats ?
 

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Speedboat100

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Did you forget the tons and tons of RC flying wings? And all the hang gliders and powered trikes?

Aeriane Swift? (and, yes, it does have wing tip rudders. Still, no conventional tail and empenage).


But if flying wing is so much more efficient...we ought fly only those.
 
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Speedboat100

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Torenbeek says this:

An elementary analysis has been made of generic wing-body configurations with variable volume allotment in wing and body, for constant total useful volume, including the all-wing configuration. These aircraft were compared on the basis of the Lift-to-Drag (L/D) ratio, for specified flight conditions. In addition the parameter ML/D for constant corrected thrust has been optimized, resulting in certain combinations of altitude and speed for maximum specific range (if corrected TSFC = constant). Finally, the effect of volume allotment on L/D for given engine size was studied. It has been found that in many cases optimum volume allotments indicate that wing-body combinations are to be favored. Only in the case of relatively low Mach numbers and high-altitude flight the flying wing outperforms conventional aircraft, but it will generally require larger engines.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44547589?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


I am fond of the motorized solar powered possibilities of this configuration...albeit I'd put the fins on it.
 
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Aerowerx

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But if flying wing is so much more efficient...we ought fly only those.
You are right. But flying wings are harder to design than tailed aircraft, and get right.

Also, efficiency is not the only parameter to consider. You have to think about the purpose of the aircraft, too. Some jobs may be more suited to tails, such as large cargo aircraft. Or STOL bush planes used in rough country.
 
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