Bugatti Model 100 Flying Replica

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by FranklinRatliff, Sep 22, 2011.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 8, 2016 #81

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,323
    Likes Received:
    3,571
    Location:
    Australian
    Not specifically but something was clearly wrong that looked like loss of power. It was struggling and the tail was low. The video is on the net, I didn't save the link.
     
  2. Aug 8, 2016 #82

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,323
    Likes Received:
    3,571
    Location:
    Australian
  3. Aug 8, 2016 #83

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,729
    Likes Received:
    5,407
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    The fact is that we don't know anything at this point. From the description, it's as much stall-spiin as power failure. I know waiting is almost unbearable, but wait for the NTSB to publish at least a preliminary report before jumping to conclusions. Please.
     
    BoKu and bmcj like this.
  4. Aug 9, 2016 #84

    autoreply

    autoreply

    autoreply

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,732
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Location:
    Rotterdam, Netherlands
    Torsional vibration in the drive line with additional modes in cockpit bending/torsion and the unconventional flap system and it's potential to fully blanket the tail at high aoa.
     
  5. Aug 12, 2016 #85

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    5,352
    Likes Received:
    3,279
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Failure to maintain altitude. I doubt we'll learn anything from the FAA.

    @Autoreply

    Didn't he redesign the transmission unit because they found a fault with the original design? Transmission probably isn't the best word.
     
  6. Aug 12, 2016 #86

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,539
    Likes Received:
    6,313
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA

    Preliminary report here CEN16FA307


    BJC
     
  7. Aug 12, 2016 #87

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    3,269
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Looks like they recovered some Go Pros so probably sad to watch, but mechanical issues should be much easier to pin down. Sounds like the story of the the dreaded turn has a play in the wreckage and Im sure crashability has a role in the real sad part.
     
  8. Aug 12, 2016 #88

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,797
    Likes Received:
    1,718
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house
    I agree, the builder's decision to install cameras was likely influenced by the fact that if something did happen, it would be documented. Much better than leaving a lot of questions unanswered and having history incorrectly recorded. Who knows, someone else may take on a similar project one day.
     
    BoKu likes this.
  9. Aug 12, 2016 #89

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    656
    Location:
    Uncasville, CT
    I would install cameras everywhere because even if nothing goes wrong, I'd still want to document every aspect of one of the only flights the thing would make, in as much detail as possible.
     
    BoKu likes this.
  10. Aug 12, 2016 #90

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    4,861
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Not to analyze without all of the facts, but a drop of one wing followed by a drop of the other wing (into the final roll) is certainly consistent with tip stall with a secondary stall of the other tip following correction of the first one. Hopefully they will be able to find the cause, but this is certainly a possibility given the observed deviations. No telling what the tip stall tendency is with that highly tapered wing.
     
    BoKu and Topaz like this.
  11. Aug 12, 2016 #91

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,729
    Likes Received:
    5,407
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    This. I'll note that they found no "pre-impact anomalies" anywhere in the driveline, according to the report. There's a lot of data on the stall behavior of highly-tapered wings. It's not pleasant. Depending on the airfoils and twist, they can be benign, but with most combinations they tend towards nasty tip-stall behavior.

    I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it's starting to look like one of the better suspects. Only the final NTSB report, informed by whatever camera footage they can salvage, will tell for sure.
     
    Swampyankee, bmcj and BoKu like this.
  12. Aug 12, 2016 #92

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,539
    Likes Received:
    6,313
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Did they have cameras on the upper surface of the wing near the tip as they did on the previous flight?


    BJC
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  13. Aug 12, 2016 #93

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    3,269
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    NTSB reports are interesting because they only can have one fault of a crash. They study the chain of events but the chain can't be the fault. Example which is hard to not make it related to the real accident. So the fuel system could get the blame when the real cause is turning back to the airport. Trying to save the plane instead of self never come out. If successful saving the plane saves self but you can save self and sacrifice the airplane.
     
    bmcj likes this.
  14. Aug 13, 2016 #94

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    I would investigate the listed gross weight (2900 pounds) and get the wing loading and power loading and calculate the climb rate.
    It looked underpowered. The natural tendency is to pull into a stall. Happened to me. Very hard to force your hand to push the stick forward. A pilot with no experience in marginal powered aircraft has a problem. 11,000 hours in turbine military aircraft may not help in an underpowered aircraft.
    It was reported to be the third and final flight before retirement. That implies a known problem. But I haven't read anything about the first two flights climb performance.
     
  15. Dec 2, 2017 #95

    autoreply

    autoreply

    autoreply

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,732
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    Location:
    Rotterdam, Netherlands
    dino and Swampyankee like this.
  16. Dec 2, 2017 #96

    MadRocketScientist

    MadRocketScientist

    MadRocketScientist

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    894
    Location:
    Canterbury, New Zealand, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy.
    A sad but fascinating read at the same time. I really hope someone builds another one someday. It is a plane not to make any mistakes in.
     
  17. Dec 2, 2017 #97

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,797
    Likes Received:
    1,718
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house
    Wow - for a speculative summary, that's hauntingly close. Obviously it was not underpowered but (at least) on the accident flight had a moment where there was inadequate thrust required to overcome drag and maintain altitude. The human factor comment of being unable to recognize and/or react to decaying airspeed (within the given time frame) is spot on. Pushing the nose over and landing off airport at 75 knots would take a lot of discipline but could have made a huge difference in survivability.
     
  18. Dec 2, 2017 #98

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    357
    Location:
    Earth USA East Coast
  19. Dec 2, 2017 #99

    RJW

    RJW

    RJW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Kansas
    The report is very subjective with a lot of speculation. The writer does not seem to be expert in many of the areas on which he comments. Don’t mean to be insensitive but it’s not a very useful document.

    Rob
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  20. Dec 2, 2017 #100

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    2,788
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    I didn't understand the tox report finding ethanol in the body and the short discussion on whether this occurred post-mortem or not. Anyone here with a medical background who could explain that?
     

Share This Page

arrow_white